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Other/Mixed Nils van der Poel

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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Thanks for sharing, very interesting.

A couple of notes:
  • The Four Quadrants (Dan John) help to understand this. He advocates for younger ones to start in Q1, exploring and building the body. But this training booklet is clearly a great display of Q4.
  • It is important to have a feel for the recovery of the body - and to take rest periods when needed. Repeating certain sessions and having a clear structure (5 days of training 2 days of rest in this instance) help.
  • Specifity is king for performance: For example training in a way that encourages the right technique etc.
  • However, specifity might mean cross-training: Rollerskating (inline) alters speed-skating technique too much, so he relied on biking
  • Basebuilding etc. works: Hours are more important than intensity.
  • "Remember, the next step off a peak is always down." (Mark Reifkind)... plan for it with easier work.
  • For motivation it is key to do it voluntarily and tweak it in ways that make it enjoyable (switching to another mode of training, eating ice cream, having friends, enjoying rest days)
  • There are a lot of ways to reach peak performance (and all require dedication and time). Michael Phelps, for example, liked to train 7 days per week, whereas his friend Grant Hacket prefered 6 days. But only 5 days per week seem a good idea, given that it might help with having a life and thus with mental health.
  • Only having two training paces can be enough. So when Inigo San Millan advises to only do Zone 2 and Zone 4, we better believe it.
  • Then again: Adjustments on the fly can be necessary: Having a lighter session here and there, etc.
  • Minimalism can work, especially for very specific disciplines. A basketball or soccer player has to balance far more qualities and stressors (sports-wise, but also profession-wise, like travelling, sleeping in hotels, etc.)
 
offwidth said:
All he hints at in his manuscript is this:

I was decent in the gym squatting 125kg, I could run 10km in 40 minutes and I did plenty of core training.

I already knew how to skate and I had a good base of strength training, not only from my army training but also from my teenage years. Due to my past I was able to withstand a decent amount of training to begin with. I must emphasize that copying my program is not possible for most athletes straight away.
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That's a 1.5 times bodyweight squat. Which for an endurance athletes is pretty high.

So if he's able to maintain that then I would argue he would have higher potential to express force than most of his competition.
 
wespom9 said:
I wonder what his his physical capacity was from his military training. Like if he did a battery of tests the day after his service ended, what was his foundational capacity before beginning this diary?
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That would be very interesting to know. From my understanding is he did a lot of squatting and core work in the military.

As well as prepare for his military tests. I don't know his role and the specific RFTs associated, so it's difficult to understand the minimum standard he would be performing at.

But no doubt like many western militaries he would have ample opportunities to participate in sports during his down time. Or even as part of the regular working week.

Which makes taking a guess at his physical capabilities during the end of his military service very difficult.
 
I find this extremely interesting reading. Great find! The efforts that elite athletes put in for specialized sports is extremely impressive. His approach reminds me of the approaches used by Kenyan distance runners that Bart Yasso draws upon in his book "My Life On The Run". I'm only on page 16, but what is sticking with me is.... "imagine doing all this and NOT winning double gold"...

Unfortunately, it is probably the case that whoever he was competing against probably wasn't training all that differently in terms of total effort.
 
So many awesome mental takeaways from this! This is my personal favorite, so far:
I have never skated a 10k without questioning why I chose to become a speed skater. It always sucked with 10 laps to go, but working harder would only result in me blowing up too early. Every time I skated the 10k I was in doubt of my ability. This is why I considered the 10k to be The Distance. The King's distance. (page 24)
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Peak performance at the world level is WILD!
 
offwidth said:
I’d like to thank @wespom9 for starting this thread.
It brings together many of the other posts and conversations that we have had on endurance topics in a very real, albeit world class (and record) situation…
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I think too that by nature we all love training (some like me may like READING about training more than ACTUALLY training ROFLROFL). He is clearly a thoughtful intelligent person who takes a fine tooth comb to his training, and gives us insight into planning, motivation, consistency, balance...quite a read.

Additionally, nice find on his military #'s prior to leaving service. Too bad we only got one strength number, but fascinating insight nonetheless. Squats that high, 10k that fast.. he makes a great point about "I must emphasize that copying my program is not possible for most athletes straight away.".
Clearly he was "strong enough".
 
offwidth said:
He does a huge amount of long duration training. Running, cycling and skating. Things like 100km skates…

He’s the real deal for sure
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Yes, I also think his parable about sculpting a bear out of wood is an awesome takeaway from this. That sort of long duration training is clearly (given his results/performance) the best tool for the job. While the average recreational speedskater (insert recreational athlete of your choice) might just want to work on adding to their squat or refining their snatch test, however at the world-class level someone like Mr. van der Poel's schedule is clearly: train, recover, eat, sleep, conquer, repeat. Inspiring stuff to read!
 
offwidth said:
I am light years away from his performance, but this type of long duration work has always served me pretty well….
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Absolutely, my point about a more local/recreational athlete is that while this type of training might be excellent, you aren't always going to have the time/ability to do so, and the marginal product of utility might be similar for something that can be achieved in a much more compressed time period. I absolutely love the fun and challenge of a 4-6 hour bike ride, but alas in the past several years it hasn't been something I've been able to fit into the "program".
 
wespom9 said:
Squats that high, 10k that fast.. he makes a great point about "I must emphasize that copying my program is not possible for most athletes straight away.".
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I 100% agree. Good SnC principles and good SnC principles.

But they have to be adjusted and tailored to the individual.

This guy knew his main focus was to build his aerobic base and he definitely did that. 7 hour bike rides will definitely do that.

He also found the method of cross training that worked best for him (can't imagine him doing so much cycling if this wasn't the case).

What I do find odd is how little specificity there was. He only actually did a little bit of skating. Most of his work was done with cycling.

This will be where him and his coach using their experience and intuition to make adjustments specifically for him. Unlike a general, cookie cutter program.
 
btw, something that is only hinted at in the booklet: To skate 10k in 12:30.74 you need to skate 25 rounds in 30 seconds around the 400m ring. Average pace of 47.95 km/h (29.79 mph)...

Now look at his sessions during the specific seasion:
The 10k session:
  • Bike warm-up
  • 3x8 laps at 30,0” with 2 laps rest (1min 20 sec rest)
  • 30 min rest (I usually got on the bike and did some easy stretching during this pause, but right before I left the bike for my next set on the ice I did 45 seconds of threshold so that I would be warm and ready for the coming set.)
  • 3x8 laps at 30,0” with 2 laps rest (1min 20 sec rest)
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So his approach is really one of repeats and series as in StrongEndurance (Q&D, etc.). Training the endurance at the desired intensity during the specialization phase, getting almost double as much time under tension (at the desired intensity) than during the event. (He also did a lot of sessions at 5k pace with less repeats, so he also trained a bit faster.)

It is crazy to read about 8 hours of lactate threshold (4mmol) training + another 17 hours or so of aerobic work.

And this part about the threshold sessions reads a lot like the StrongFirst stop signs:
If I wasn’t able to keep my normalt watt numbers, i.e. if my power dropped more than 3 % from what it normally was about I would consider aborting the session and taking two days of rest.
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Starlord said:
What I do find odd is how little specificity there was. He only actually did a little bit of skating. Most of his work was done with cycling.
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I find this very interesting, too. But it makes sense of course: Traditionally the Winter sports are only done during, well, Winter. It is interesting to see that this is still the way things are done. And it is encouraging to know that the mode for building your aerobic base is not as important (but very important for race specific sessions).
 
Bauer said:
I find this very interesting, too. But it makes sense of course: Traditionally the Winter sports are only done during, well, Winter. It is interesting to see that this is still the way things are done. And it is encouraging to know that the mode for building your aerobic base is not as important (but very important for race specific sessions).
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He had some good points about avoiding slide board and roller blade work because he felt that they compromised his technique when he got on the ice.
 
I am in a masters track & field club, and we do track tues. Some of the guys in the fastest group ONLY do intervals and time trials for running, and their easy aerobic works comes from many hours of cycling. So there are plenty of real world examples of these training methods that work with recreational athletes as well. That said, 30h of cycling a week is beyond my time budget (and I dare say, for most people!)
 
wespom9 said:
I wonder what his his physical capacity was from his military training. Like if he did a battery of tests the day after his service ended, what was his foundational capacity before beginning this diary?
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Do you know what he did in the military?
 
Regarding the aerobic work done cycling compared to skating or running or such.

The vast amount of training necessary must cause peripheral adaptations in addition to cardiovascular adaptations. And I would bet those adaptations may not necessarily be compatible between sports. For example, consider how massive amounts of running works on your tendons. Do we want those adaptations in the tendons for skating 5km or 10km?
 
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