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Kettlebell Red Zone and S&S

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Pavel Macek said:
Pet, I d

Pet, I got "Simple" pretty fast, not difficult. My main criterium is my combat arts performance- if I am not sore and I am getting stronger, all good. And S&S delivers, in any stage of the practice.
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Hi Pavel, would you recommend your S&C approach for the non-martial artist too, if some sort of pressing is in top priorities. I'm referring your stuff S&C Training for MMA With Simple & Sinister | StrongFirst and I'm interested at doing push presses 10x10 alternating with the get ups shown in the article.
 
Before S&S I could press the 32 (coming from a bodybuilding-ish training). After S&S (timed Simple) I could not press the 32 and had trouble pressing the 24.

Its kind of weird as I lost pressing strength I got stronger ... overall. I like the metaphor @Anna C did with the rising tide.
 
Hello,

@Pavel Macek
Thanks for your answer !

At what point - meaning weight - have you noticed the more benefits in both MA and daily life ? 32, 40, 48 ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Dayz said:
I'm the same - the press increases my TGU without doing any TGUs, but doing only TGUs reduces my press very quickly.
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Same here.

That's why the TGU is not so great as a main strength grind (for me). ;)

Once I figured this out, I removed it from main programming and relegated to 'variety day', along with the windmill, clubs, and maces.
 
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Stefan Olsson said:
Before S&S I could press the 32 (coming from a bodybuilding-ish training). After S&S (timed Simple) I could not press the 32 and had trouble pressing the 24.

Its kind of weird as I lost pressing strength I got stronger ... overall. I like the metaphor @Anna C did with the rising tide.
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My take: strength is position specific.

I won't comment on grapplers, because they have to get into all sorts of positions for their sport that I don't, but my conclusion after doing TGU off and on for years is that TGU hasn't made me notably stronger for things I do standing on two feet.

(like overhead pressing)

The lunge position of the TGU is probably the only thing I can recognize as being transferable, and it's just simpler for me to do overhead lunges.

TGU *does* make me better at yoga, though!
 
One thing though, that I find interesting is that for me Get-ups seems like learning to ride a bike.

When Im on the ground for what ever reason, on my back or knees in my everdyday life. When I stan up it is as If my body always goes in to "get-up mode" as always use the same pattern for standing up.

I bet this sounds weird, but its as If my body remember how to 'get up' in the same way ridning a bike even if I haven't done that for years.
 
Hello,

Even if it can sound weird and even if this is not necessarily "StrongFirst approved", working with resistance bands have also helped a lot my pressing. Indeed, I usually use a fairly thick band, which means I have trouble exceeding 3 or 4 reps in a row.

The band always "vibrates" which forces the body to work on stabilization, which is also something necessary for the GU.

@Pavel Macek
So you have not noticed some sort of "diminishing returns" (meaning the time you spend training to increase the weight to get additional benefits) ? It can be from recovery standpoint or whatever.
For example: if one spends 10 years to go from 32 to 40, but if this only increase the press (or any move you want) by 2 or 4 kg, it would have been extremely movement specific, as @watchnerd said. On the other hand, I admit that @Stefan Olsson makes a good point: this move is super natural!

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
pet' said:
Hello,

That's something interesting.

During the first lockdown, I've done S&S (Simple) and Red Zone (24kg for press and 32kg for swings). RZ is quite similar to RoP as far as pressing volume is concerned. It worked well. However, from a recovery standpoint, it was only possible because back then, I had no other physical activies.

This is why S&T + S&S sounds like a great idea to me.

The beauty of RZ is that it can be considered as a sustainable RoP. It will not lead to a peak and you can really do it as long as you want, by progressively increasing the weight. It is some sort of GPP programme, like S&S. Plus, recovery and fatigue are evenly distributed compared to RoP which uses a L/M/H approach.

What @Anna C says makes sense. For a while, I played by doing 15 x 1 GU @32. It built a significant "strength reserve" and really increase endurance. Sessions were longer, I did this during the weekends. It also allowed me to dial technique. However, it did not help me that much to do TGU @36.

Kind regards,

Pet'
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Out of curiosity- what is the goal of your overall training program/s? Do you have a particular achievement or activity this supports?
 
Hello @TedM

My main sport is boxing (French Boxing, which uses both legs and arms). Otherwise, I do a lot of "heavy work" (heavy DIY, moving stuff, etc...) when I am in my parents' or grand parents' house). I also run / trail a lot.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
pet' said:
Hello,

Even if it can sound weird and even if this is not necessarily "StrongFirst approved", working with resistance bands have also helped a lot my pressing. Indeed, I usually use a fairly thick band, which means I have trouble exceeding 3 or 4 reps in a row.

The band always "vibrates" which forces the body to work on stabilization, which is also something necessary for the GU.

@Pavel Macek
So you have not noticed some sort of "diminishing returns" (meaning the time you spend training to increase the weight to get additional benefits) ? It can be from recovery standpoint or whatever.
For example: if one spends 10 years to go from 32 to 40, but if this only increase the press (or any move you want) by 2 or 4 kg, it would have been extremely movement specific, as @watchnerd said. On the other hand, I admit that @Stefan Olsson makes a good point: this move is super natural!

Kind regards,

Pet'
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I decreased my training frequency from almost daily to 4x/week to 3x/week. My recovery was great. I kept most of my strength in other lifts/skills - and after tackling Sinister, I started snatching 32kg, easily.

S&S was my main heavy GPP lifting program, but not the only thing I was doing - Great Gama Protocol as daily morning recharge, easy SFG skills review (with 24s), StrongFirst Resilient drills with 16, teaching other skills almost daily, plus combat arts training.
 
Additional thoughts

According to my experience, S&S has excellent transfer to other skills (at least solid maintenance) if you keep doing the other skills - not much, but at least a little bit. Keep running, keep pressing keep deadlifting, etc. - not hard, not heavy, just a little bit to keep the skill. I have actually an article in work on similar topic (keeping your SFG/SFL/SFB skill sharp).
 
Hello,

@Pavel Macek
I am eager to read it then.

So you'd recommend something like a 'daily dose', 2-3 reps a day for instance ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
pet' said:
Hello @Pavel Macek

The lift I want to maintain is OVH Pr

Kind regards,

Pet'
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GTG, sets of 2-3 reps with a 5-6RM weight (or even lighter), at least 15mins+ rest between the "sets", 2-3 days in a row, 1 day rest. You will not only maintain it, but improve.

For maintenance, 2x/week, let's say 3 ladders of 1,2,3 with 5-6 RM weight.
 
Huyovas said:
I have not tried it with higher reps, but after hitting simple I kept training with the 32 kg since I didn't have bigger bell, but instead of doing regular getups, I did reverse getups with c&p. I have progressed pretty smoothly from doing only one set per arm reverse getup to full 5 sets per arm using the same S&S 2.0 step loading pattern in five weeks (just adding only one set of reverse getup a week). It was a good way to still stay on S&S format, but bring a bit of variety and also progress in one arm press.
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I naturally just did this too. They just seemed more convenient to do back to back right/left reverse getups as a set.

Besides a C&P to start, I also add a single arm floor press at the bottom before getting back up, and generally pause 3-5 seconds at each stage down and up.

I have learned though how powerful reverse get-ups are. After six weeks of doing S&S with 95% of my get-ups being reverse, I've now I discovered this week I can do all ten TGU's handily with the 24KG as a regular, but am still stuck most days doing 16/24/24/16/16 if I do them as reverse TGU's. I do think it has accelerated overall strength gains because I can already clean & then press my 32KG for 1-2 reps each arm...but I cannot get-up with the 32KG.

But I'm slowing my roll a bit though and for the next few weeks trying to stick to regular TGU's at 24KG just to give my ligaments and tendons a break. Last week I tweaked an old clavicle injury and my chiropractor had to readjust it where it attaches at the sternum. Too much too fast. But I do think over the next two months I want to completely own the 24KG by being able to do all five sets for each arm with both reverse TGU's and possibly bottoms up TGU's (heck...maybe even bottoms up reverse TGU's) prior to adding the 32KG bell into my getups.
 
Cyrus-II said:
I naturally just did this too. They just seemed more convenient to do back to back right/left reverse getups as a set.

Besides a C&P to start, I also add a single arm floor press at the bottom before getting back up, and generally pause 3-5 seconds at each stage down and up.

I have learned though how powerful reverse get-ups are. After six weeks of doing S&S with 95% of my get-ups being reverse, I've now I discovered this week I can do all ten TGU's handily with the 24KG as a regular, but am still stuck most days doing 16/24/24/16/16 if I do them as reverse TGU's. I do think it has accelerated overall strength gains because I can already clean & then press my 32KG for 1-2 reps each arm...but I cannot get-up with the 32KG.

But I'm slowing my roll a bit though and for the next few weeks trying to stick to regular TGU's at 24KG just to give my ligaments and tendons a break. Last week I tweaked an old clavicle injury and my chiropractor had to readjust it where it attaches at the sternum. Too much too fast. But I do think over the next two months I want to completely own the 24KG by being able to do all five sets for each arm with both reverse TGU's and possibly bottoms up TGU's (heck...maybe even bottoms up reverse TGU's) prior to adding the 32KG bell into my getups.
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Bottom-up getups regular or reverse sounds a little bit to much for me. Im just trying to imagine how it would end if that bell would flip inwards when I would be lying on the ground.. but continous reverse getups was a real challenge.
 
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