all posts post new thread

Kettlebell ROP and preparing for 5-min snatch test

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Guys congratulations about what you have accomplished! I am really a newbie. Can you point me to a great snatch tutorial please?
 
You have a ways to go and, in a way, that's a good thing - there are a lot of avenues towards improvement.

Improving your pressing, pull-up, and swing strength will make a difference. Working towards being able to do more without setting down the bell and also without switching hands (even at a slower pace, 'resting' w. the bell overhead) will make it much easier to hit higher numbers in 5mins. Occasionally in training, you should be trying to hit pace numbers (at least 20rpm) for a minute or two - if you can't do that, try to do it for 30 secs and work your way up.
 
I ran the ROP from January to April earlier this year and I felt the ballistics worked great as described in the program. Firstly, my clean and press went from 28kg x 3 to 36kg x 5. The ballistics went up big time as well without doing any extra work on variety days. I went from 100 reps in 10 minutes to 150 with the 28kg bell.

I definitely think you can pass the USSS snatch test on this program.

Now, I’m way more on the side of AGT now, as I’ve been on S&S since April. Is there a better way of doing it? Maybe. Depends on what you actually do. But I do think the ballistics portion of ROP works really well.
 
Geoinchains said:
Guys congratulations about what you have accomplished! I am really a newbie. Can you point me to a great snatch tutorial please?
Click to expand...

If you can upload a vid of your one arm swing, clean and press, we can guide you from there
 
At risk of stating the obvious, I think it depends on the weight you are using. Doing ladders and ballistics with a 24kg likely won't get you to a USSS test. But with a 32kg or higher, I think it absolutely can. Don't forget that you're also doing a ton of cleans - and at a heavy weight, that will also help build towards the snatch test. This isn't to say a more specialized plan wont be more efficient, but I think building up to a working bell 2-3 sizes higher than the 24kg for ROP will be very effective.

Caveat to the above, I've never completed (or attempted) the 10 min test, but earlier this year I did hit 100 (with 24kg) in just under 4 mins after doing SE plan 523A (which is an A&Aish program that uses combined EMOM heavy 2HS and snatches 1.25-1.33x your test size). Working with a heavy bell has been VERY helpful for me - I didn't do any glycolytic work or peaking in the lead up to that snatch test.

I'm now doing ROP with a 28kg - for the ballistics portion, I'm doing easy day snatches with the 28 (using rep structure of 3/3 - 5/5 EMOM depending on how many minutes), medium day 1HS are done as sets of 10 EMOM with a 40kg, and heavy day I mix it up but try to get after it with higher reps on the 2HS (today I alternated 10x48kg and 20x28kg done EMOM for 11 mins). I'm pretty confident that completing this run of ROP will get me to ~170-180 or so 24kg snatches in 10 mins, and my gut tells me that if I complete the program again with a 32kg, I'll be able to achieve the USSS test.
 
acutaiar12 said:
I ran the ROP from January to April earlier this year and I felt the ballistics worked great as described in the program. Firstly, my clean and press went from 28kg x 3 to 36kg x 5. The ballistics went up big time as well without doing any extra work on variety days. I went from 100 reps in 10 minutes to 150 with the 28kg bell.

I definitely think you can pass the USSS snatch test on this program.

Now, I’m way more on the side of AGT now, as I’ve been on S&S since April. Is there a better way of doing it? Maybe. Depends on what you actually do. But I do think the ballistics portion of ROP works really well.
Click to expand...

dcc449 said:
At risk of stating the obvious, I think it depends on the weight you are using. Doing ladders and ballistics with a 24kg likely won't get you to a USSS test. But with a 32kg or higher, I think it absolutely can. Don't forget that you're also doing a ton of cleans - and at a heavy weight, that will also help build towards the snatch test. This isn't to say a more specialized plan wont be more efficient, but I think building up to a working bell 2-3 sizes higher than the 24kg for ROP will be very effective.

Caveat to the above, I've never completed (or attempted) the 10 min test, but earlier this year I did hit 100 (with 24kg) in just under 4 mins after doing SE plan 523A (which is an A&Aish program that uses combined EMOM heavy 2HS and snatches 1.25-1.33x your test size). Working with a heavy bell has been VERY helpful for me - I didn't do any glycolytic work or peaking in the lead up to that snatch test.

I'm now doing ROP with a 28kg - for the ballistics portion, I'm doing easy day snatches with the 28 (using rep structure of 3/3 - 5/5 EMOM depending on how many minutes), medium day 1HS are done as sets of 10 EMOM with a 40kg, and heavy day I mix it up but try to get after it with higher reps on the 2HS (today I alternated 10x48kg and 20x28kg done EMOM for 11 mins). I'm pretty confident that completing this run of ROP will get me to ~170-180 or so 24kg snatches in 10 mins, and my gut tells me that if I complete the program again with a 32kg, I'll be able to achieve the USSS test.
Click to expand...
Even though I was very dismissive of the ballistics plan in ROP, these posts raise a good point. If you work it up to much heavier bells (compared to the test weight of 24kg), you might get there.

I still don't think it's a great path, and I've seen references here on the forum to revised programming in some of the current StrongFirst KB courses. Also, notice that neither of the strong people quoted above (respect to you both) say they have actually completed the 24kg x 200 x 10 minute test (even though they are probably within close range of it), and that they have incorporated or moved on to other approaches besides by-the-book ROP.
 
Last edited:
I definitely think the AGT route is better (S&S, A+A, or Q&D). I just felt that the ballistics portion does work if you do it.
 
Sorry for the late reply - I'm in the midst of moving! While Steve W's plan looks excellent to me, I think I'm going to try Q&D for a while with the 16kg - I have a long way to go and I think I should work on technique, breathing and efficiency for a bit before worrying about conditioning and endurance (plus my schedule's pretty hectic right now!).
@James Sullivan @silveraw
You should check out SF's new 202 rite of passage workshop. I attended Louka's yesterday via zoom. Pavel has put together new recommendations for the ballistics and several new schemes for the pressing ladders....
Click to expand...
I wasn't aware these workshops were available online either. Is there a way to register on the site or do you have to message the instructors?

Finally, form check! In Geoff Neupert's terminology, I've found the "swing snatch" to be the one that works best for me.




Thanks in advance folks.
 
First off, i am not an instructor. Just another student of strength. Secondly, glad to see another person training on their walk! Imagine that your elbow is pinned to your side, and try to let the bell drop more than bring it down like a press. You let it drop eventually, but it should be dropping from the top.
 
I’m always too quick to post…so in addition,lock your knees out hard at the top, and i always find that i get more power and better form with a deeper squat in my hinge.
 
LarryB said:
First off, i am not an instructor. Just another student of strength. Secondly, glad to see another person training on their walk! Imagine that your elbow is pinned to your side, and try to let the bell drop more than bring it down like a press. You let it drop eventually, but it should be dropping from the top.
Click to expand...
Yup, keep the bell close to your body and the force up and down, not out. The bell gets heavy when in moves out from the body.
 
Don Fairbanks said:
Yup, keep the bell close to your body and the force up and down, not out. The bell gets heavy when in moves out from the body.
Click to expand...
Thank you! I've seen this tip before - however, how does this tie in with what Geoff Neupert describes as a "swing snatch"? (where it's basically a swing with a large ROM and a small dip of the arm at the top) Is that a different, but less efficient form of snatching unfeasible for snatch tests?
 
TimmyCK said:
Thank you! I've seen this tip before - however, how does this tie in with what Geoff Neupert describes as a "swing snatch"? (where it's basically a swing with a large ROM and a small dip of the arm at the top) Is that a different, but less efficient form of snatching unfeasible for snatch tests?
Click to expand...
You have a GS (girevoy sport) pendulum kind of thing going where you raise your hips at the end of the backswing and then rebend your knees to initiate the upswing. AFAIK, the SFG standards for the snatch specifically forbid forward knee movement/increased ankle dorsiflexion on the upswing.

That's a whole different issue than the trajectory of the bell. The pendulum is a legit technique that girevoy sport athletes use pretty universally, but one that is frowned on in hard style and not allowed in the certification standards.
 
Steve W. said:
You have a GS (girevoy sport) pendulum kind of thing going where you raise your hips at the end of the backswing and then rebend your knees to initiate the upswing. AFAIK, the SFG standards for the snatch specifically forbid forward knee movement/increased ankle dorsiflexion on the upswing.

That's a whole different issue than the trajectory of the bell. The pendulum is a legit technique that girevoy sport athletes use pretty universally, but one that is frowned on in hard style and not allowed in the certification standards.
Click to expand...
Good eye - I will take that into consideration. Thank you.
 
@TimmyCK your form looks good, but be a lot more explosive with your lift.

Agree with @Steve W. , if you're aiming for hardstyle technique, eliminate the forward movement of the knees on the upswing.

These things go together to some degree. Aim for maximum explosiveness and that will change your style.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom