Kettlebell ROP support group
- Thread starter gibbertron
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Dydo
Level 5 Valued Member
The KB24 is a bit heavy for my program, while the KB20 is a bit light. I won't be able to strictly and with good technique press in my opinion KB24 for 5 reps, what's left for 8. therefore I bet on KB20 with shorter rests to begin with. Yesterday I performed 3x1,2,3 in about 14 minutes, and I could do it faster. I'm in no rush. However, in my gym, the heaviest KB is 36 kg. and I have a lot of time until I reach that weight so I can do the program with it as well. And I may not reach it.
Use the 20kg, make it harder by holding it at the top (“fixation”) for a second, slowing your lowering, and decreasing rest. If it is too easy, 2-3-5 ladders are great, and if those are too easy there’s 2-3-5-10!
Something that helped me: in my Hardstyle Method Snatches, you always lower your snatch to rack (negative press). Builds up to tremendous volume and really helped me getting the pressing groove perfect and controlling the negative (= all time PR's in weight and volume)
Yes, that is called "Heavy ROP" and is a slightly different/newer variation. Really good too.
So Tim uses the half snatch to train the snatch and press at the same time? Probably also saves the hands a little?
Yes! Primarily for the hands and to get the perfect set up for the low pull.
Joel the Savage
Level 6 Valued Member
Or, just not resisting the lowering, just do a controlled drop. Which increases number of reps possible.
As example:
Starts with a really fast eccentric, as reps increase it moved to a controlled drop.
So many options!
Other thoughts if ascending/decending reps schemes works:
3,5,7 (3 reps is recovery)
3,5,7,10 (3 and 5 are recovery)
Pyramid to max reps, rest as many minutes as you pressed nr of reps.
Do first reps with heavier bells.
Do warm up with bottom up press untill your daily press weigh
t.
Change weight and reps througout the week (as in RotK).
I.e.
Easy day BuP 1 bells lower (no clean in between)
Medium day .5 bells lower (4kg).
Heavy day as you wish.
Important thing is to increase intensity, density or volume over time.
Joel the Savage
Level 6 Valued Member
I always trained something else besides RoP.
MMA/Grappling, powerlifts (except bench).
Just rest more during training. I.e don't compress the rest periods, rest more than enough. I prefer as many minutes of rest as I did presses.
1 press, rest 30s to 60s.
2 presses, rest 120s.
3 presses rest 180s.
RoP is a whole-body-program to be done with kettlebells. But lets just look at the main movements
You do a lot of rowing with the amounts of Cleans in RoP. But if you just do military presses you don't do any.
You do a lot of hinges if you are doing cleans/swings/snatches.
If you remove them you get a lot of place for other things. Remove swings and you have space for powercleans (barbell or double kettlebell) or deadlifts.
And if you are in the gym, you could always end light and medium days with squats or deadlifts... Finish with swings/prowler/snatches/rowingmachine as conditioning.
And... I would have liked more isolationwork as accessory.
Keep in mind that every god-damn kettlebell exercise is a spinal-loading-exercise.
Dydo
Level 5 Valued Member
And is there a need for a break before moving on to the next KB size. For example, I end the program with 20, then immediately go to 24, then 28, then 32, etc. I know the book says to keep going until you press half your body weight. But it might still be good to take a break for a few weeks.
Joel the Savage
Level 6 Valued Member
Depends on the goal OFC, whats the end game?
Do you enjoy your presses and want to continue making them another round? Then go for it.
Are you bored out of your mind, then change ut up.
Are you somewhere in between? Maybe change something.
Some people are only doing their strength training to get stronger, then enjoying it might not be a variable to consider.
Some people train for the social environment/gathering and talking to other like minded. Then enjoying ut might be important.
For some people the training is their entertainment of choice. They will need to change it up regularly to stick with it.
The important thing is to keep going. Easier to track variables if you stick with the same thing. Easier to see if you are getting better by testing every now and then. But you don't have to.
John Grahill
Level 8 Valued Member
I did not take a break at all. Used the ROP for darned near two years until I could confidently do a half bodyweight press. I also repeated some bell sizes condensing rest periods. The end result was a stronger me and people saying "wow I see you've been lifting" this despite people saying you can't gain muscle from single kettlebell lifts!!
As I got stronger and gained some shoulder mass my 1/2 press went from the 44 kg to the 48 kg!
Dydo
Level 5 Valued Member
Joel, The end game is to both train my body and get better at something over time. If I strictly follow the prescribed repetition schemes I will have constant progress, which I do not have with the other type of training as a bodybuilder. Or at least mentally I can't handle it. The heaviest KB in the gym is 36 kg, which means that if it is the will of the Creator, I will have a long time until I reach the ROP with this weight. At least in the coming years I'll have a clear plan of what to do every workout 
I just pray it doesn't hurt my arms or shoulders badly. So I'm still debating whether to go with the Classic version stretched out over 12-13 weeks, do the Jurassic version, or do what you suggested on page 64. The last two workouts I intentionally did the same thing 3x1,2,3 to see how I felt. Tonight I have day two of the training coming up /I have distributed them - heavy, light, medium/ and I am hesitating which of the versions to do. I'm also hesitating whether, if I make the classic version or your version in the daylight, I should make the KB one size heavier. I know it's been discussed which version is right for whom, but which version would be best for me, a 50 year old guy with not much KB experience. What do you think. Jurassic does not have light and medium days, but there the highest number of reps is 60, while in the classic they reach 75. On the other hand, the classic reaches more reps, but there are days with less load. The main ones are the clean and the press, and I will do the swings and snatches when I feel good and have the desire.
John, thanks for the input
I just pray it doesn't hurt my arms or shoulders badly. So I'm still debating whether to go with the Classic version stretched out over 12-13 weeks, do the Jurassic version, or do what you suggested on page 64. The last two workouts I intentionally did the same thing 3x1,2,3 to see how I felt. Tonight I have day two of the training coming up /I have distributed them - heavy, light, medium/ and I am hesitating which of the versions to do. I'm also hesitating whether, if I make the classic version or your version in the daylight, I should make the KB one size heavier. I know it's been discussed which version is right for whom, but which version would be best for me, a 50 year old guy with not much KB experience. What do you think. Jurassic does not have light and medium days, but there the highest number of reps is 60, while in the classic they reach 75. On the other hand, the classic reaches more reps, but there are days with less load. The main ones are the clean and the press, and I will do the swings and snatches when I feel good and have the desire.John, thanks for the input
Luis T. Gonzalez
Level 7 Valued Member
I would stick with the Classic, pick a kettlebell you can press 5-8 times, and just do the program as it is written. After a month on it, do the test days where you attempt to press a heavier kettlebell and snatch the most you can in ten minutes. Record your results and keep going. Eventually, you will end up pressing 1/2 bodyweight and becoming a snatching machine which will make you a machine too! Just set a goal date for when you think you will reasonably press 1/2 bodyweight and snatch 200 in 10 minutes and go to work. And I would hire an SFG because we are talking about 100's of snatches, swings, and clean and presses which means your technique needs to be checked so you don't wreck your body in the process.
I would suggest that the deload from 75 reps to 18 reps, despite going up a kettlebell size, is sufficient back off, especially if paired with an “easy” week of ballistics.
I would also agree with Luis to stick with classic at least until you finish it with the 24kg. Heavy and Jurassic ROP are great, but I think especially early on getting to those higher volume rungs sooner will be a great benefit.
Dydo
Level 5 Valued Member
Due to health issues, I'm afraid to exercise in a way that gets my heart rate up a lot. I am hypertensive and take beta blockers that slow down the heart rate. Which means that the body will be tense and the natural reaction is to increase the heart rate, but at the same time the medicine will interfere. I don't know what happens under such a hypothesis and I don't want to risk it. Because of this, I don't want to aim to do as many snatches in the given time and would bet on lifts that last a shorter amount of time. Lower reps with KB work well for me. I've done snatches for example 10 left and 10 right or 5 left 5 right, rest and again, but it's not like 100 in 10 min
And I don't think about 200. As far as I know the standard for 50+ years is KB 20, 100 reps for 10 min.
Luis T. Gonzalez
Level 7 Valued Member
That would still be awesome!
Dydo
Level 5 Valued Member
I didn't understand you here. Do you think there will or will not be much benefit with these program variants. Because it sounds like there would be, but the train of thought leads to the conclusion that there would be less benefit and it would be good to run the classic version. I mean for my condition and experience. I.e. for the jurassic version or the heavy version it's still too early for me.
However, keep in mind that the KB20 is a bit light for me, and the KB24 is heavy. KB20 I can clean it and press it 10-12 times, but KB 24 I can't maybe 5 with good technique. That's why I preferred KB20 and to go light and safe. The gym does not have the non-standard KB22
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Luis T. Gonzalez
Level 7 Valued Member
@Dydo If you read through ROP, you will find some general guidance on how to rotate ROP into your own training. Pavel recommends doing ROP for 12 weeks, then do something like PTTP for 12 weeks while getting your conditioning from something other than swings and snatches, or do 12 weeks of Beyond Body Building, then back to ROP, etc. When rotating programs, you could easily "maintain" your progress with some presses and swings/snatches on one day out of the week.
Dydo
Level 5 Valued Member
I've read this before, but I think it was further down in the book given as an answer to questions. To the question, can I alternate the program, which does not mean that it is mandatory. At least that's how I interpreted what was written. I.e. if anyone wants to change the program what is recommended in this case. And no, do we necessarily have to change it. But I could be wrong too.