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Kettlebell ROP support group

Dydo said:
I've read this before, but I think it was further down in the book given as an answer to questions. To the question, can I alternate the program, which does not mean that it is mandatory. At least that's how I interpreted what was written.
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Yes, I agree it isn't mandatory. I was just pointing it out because as you do ROP, you will find that the pressing days take quite a long time to get through. Taking a break into another program may be necessary if your amount of free time or energy changes. I did a heavy day yesterday and it took me about 2 hours to get through 5(1,2,3,4) plus I did 30 minutes of swings. ROP is great but it takes a lot of time and energy.
 
Luis T. Gonzalez said:
Yes, I agree it isn't mandatory. I was just pointing it out because as you do ROP, you will find that the pressing days take quite a long time to get through. Taking a break into another program may be necessary if your amount of free time or energy changes. I did a heavy day yesterday and it took me about 2 hours to get through 5(1,2,3,4) plus I did 30 minutes of swings. ROP is great but it takes a lot of time and energy.
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Yeah, that's one of the things I don't like. My wife usually goes to the gym 4-5 times a week in group classes and the idea is that we go and come home together. At least to accompany her. Her classes are around 50-60 minutes, which means I have to get my workout in within that time. And she can't wait for me to train that long so we can leave together. Otherwise, I have KB20 and KB24 at home and until I finish the program with them /that's 24-25 weeks minimum/ I may not visit the gym at all. But there I have a greater desire to train, because at home I can't do it.
However, this is a matter of personal organization and there is no point in making excuses:)
 
Dydo said:
I didn't understand you here. Do you think there will or will not be much benefit with these program variants. Because it sounds like there would be, but the train of thought leads to the conclusion that there would be less benefit and it would be good to run the classic version. I mean for my condition and experience. I.e. for the jurassic version or the heavy version it's still too early for me.
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No, there are benefits. But understand this - a 24kg and a 40kg have a HUGE difference in recovery and stress, even if they’re both the same rep max for two different individuals. Someone using a 24kg will benefit from weeks of sets of 5s without incurring too much stress. Someone with a heavier weight, closer to that 1/2 BW bell, may well need to have more low reps and a longer build so as to not overtax their ability to recover. Again, this is regardless of relative intensity - your rep max - and has to do with absolute intensity - the actual amount of weight.

Selecting any of them - you will see progress, if you put in the work. I think higher reps builds a better foundation. However, someone like @Luis T. Gonzalez who is using a 40kg might be unable to handle week after week after week of 5s with a 40kg without getting burnt out and run down, so having a longer slower build up to them and then just touching them briefly might be enough, like Jurassic. I'm not saying this IS the case, just that it can be.

As for Heavy, I think it is a good bridge into using a heavier bell that you can get 2-3 reps with but not 5-8. But I think it is best used after you've built a foundation, not while you're building.

Again, being able to do ROP with a 24kg shows you've built at least something of a base, and you've spent likely several months building to it, and have a little more training experience under your belt, so you can start playing around with adding intensity rungs (like Heavy) or minimizing reps (like Jurassic).
 
I think I understand you. If you are not so strong the Jurassic version is more suitable. Or to put it another way, which is perhaps more true: for the stronger person, the classic version is more suitable. 10x1,2,3 with KB40 will be much more difficult for the stronger person compared to 10x1,2,3 with KB20 for the weaker individual.
By the way, Luca had a program very similar, not to say almost identical to Jurassic, with the difference that you only clean once, not every rep. It was a program for beginners to strengthen the press. I watched it on YouTube.
 
Dydo said:
I think I understand you. If you are not so strong the Jurassic version is more suitable. Or to put it another way, which is perhaps more true: for the stronger person, the classic version is more suitable. 10x1,2,3 with KB40 will be much more difficult for the stronger person compared to 10x1,2,3 with KB20 for the weaker individual.
By the way, Luca had a program very similar, not to say almost identical to Jurassic, with the difference that you only clean once, not every rep. It was a program for beginners to strengthen the press. I watched it on YouTube.
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No, I think you have it backwards.

Classic is great for the individual that is kinda strong.

Jurassic is great for the individual that is strong and having a hard time recovering with lots of sets of 5s.

Lots of high reps with heavy weight can be killer. Jurassic spreads the load so you don't burn out.

Classic has more "high reps" which will build a great base, and works REALLY well with less heavy weights.

I think the 32kg/36kg is where it starts to separate out. Classic with above 32kg can be really hard to do week after week. So either you need to deload more frequently, or you need to spread the increases out - which is exactly what Jurassic does.

If you run ROP Classic and get to a point where the sets of 5 are just running you down, maybe you're not resting enough between sets, maybe you're not recovering enough because of your lifestyle, whatever - now it makes sense to start looking at Jurassic.
 
I don't like the classic version because of the light days and intermediate days at the beginning of the program. I have the setup to go to the gym to lift more. And when I know that on the light days of the first weeks I have to do only 3x1, 4x1 and 5x1 or on the intermediate days again less lifting, I don't like it. Every visit to the gym should be tough :) I can't wait to progress through the program and that's why I prefer the Jurassic version. I'll see what happens to my arms after 2-3 more workouts.
 
John K said:
No, I think you have it backwards.

Classic is great for the individual that is kinda strong.

Jurassic is great for the individual that is strong and having a hard time recovering with lots of sets of 5s.

Lots of high reps with heavy weight can be killer. Jurassic spreads the load so you don't burn out.

Classic has more "high reps" which will build a great base, and works REALLY well with less heavy weights.

I think the 32kg/36kg is where it starts to separate out. Classic with above 32kg can be really hard to do week after week. So either you need to deload more frequently, or you need to spread the increases out - which is exactly what Jurassic does.

If you run ROP Classic and get to a point where the sets of 5 are just running you down, maybe you're not resting enough between sets, maybe you're not recovering enough because of your lifestyle, whatever - now it makes sense to start looking at Jurassic.
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This! You can always recycle the ROP and compress rest periods for cycle 2-3
 
Dydo said:
I didn't understand you here. Do you think there will or will not be much benefit with these program variants. Because it sounds like there would be, but the train of thought leads to the conclusion that there would be less benefit and it would be good to run the classic version. I mean for my condition and experience. I.e. for the jurassic version or the heavy version it's still too early for me.
However, keep in mind that the KB20 is a bit light for me, and the KB24 is heavy. KB20 I can clean it and press it 10-12 times, but KB 24 I can't maybe 5 with good technique. That's why I preferred KB20 and to go light and safe. The gym does not have the non-standard KB22
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Since I have some time today and having been in this predicament before here's what I would suggest..

Run the classic ROP albeit abbreviated (maybe 6 weeks)

Key detail is keep rest short (maybe 1-1.5 minutes for rung 1-3 and 2 minutes tops for rungs 4-5)

Repeat certain rungs if rep speed and/or form deviates..

You get to the point where you can complete 1-2-3-4-5x3 where the last rung of 5 reps still looks good, I'm pretty certain you'll be able to do 6-8 reps with the 24
 
Why am i doing this:
This is an experimental game for me. A lot of people on the forum preach about the absolute might of the Rite of Passage programme so i had to try it myself. Also, i'm a sucker for structure and progressions and gameifying my phisical health and getting to the Rite of Passage will emotionally give me the key to go to the next level of Kettlebell training. Maily inspired by THIS article.

Also, i'm as avarage as avarage comes with a classic skinnyfat phisique my whole life (its a bit better now). It also took me 329 days to complete the Simple standard. Progressing all the way from a shoe and 16kg kb.

I wanted to post once i've made the goals but i noticed quite a few posts on the forum are about getting to the 1/2 BW press and SSST within a year or shorter. Unless you have an athletic back-ground or are genetically gifted, it might be a longer grind. So i hope this provides some inspiration

Status update.
I posted in this tread in april 2021 with my overall Rite of Passage plan. I've been on the grind for 1148 days now. I think 2 more cycles are needed to get to the 1/2 bw press goals and today i started my hopefully second to last cycle.

Age: 33. Height: 186cm. Weight: 81kg

I do cycles alternating Rite of Passage and some sort of musclebuilding routing (won't link specifics cause it isn't from the StrongFirst universe). Funnily enough, i gain more muscle on the RoP cycles then on the hypertrophy cycles. Also, holiday's, a new home in a new city, a new pup, a new job, sickness, hangovers have all happened and will keep happening.

ROPDateWeeks to completeSpecifics
ROP 20kg: classic22-02-2021 till 23-05-202113 weeksWith 24kg Bent over Rows
ROP 24kg: classic13-12-2021 till 17-04-202218 weeksWith bw chinups
ROP 24kg: classic15-08-2022 till 27-11-202215 weeksCompress rest. With bw chinups
ROP 24kg: 2,3,5,1028-11-2022 till 01-01-202305 weeks(unfinished)2,3,5 chinups, 10 squats
ROP 28kg: classic11-02-2023 till 28-05-202315 weeksWith chinups
ROP 28kg: Jurassic11-09-2023 till 09-10-202305 weeksChinups only last set # of total reps
ROP 28kg: week 11,12,1316-10-2023 till 12-11-202304 weeksCompress rest. Chinups only last set # of total reps
ROP 28kg: 3,5,713-11-2023 till 11-12-202302 weeks(unfinished)Unfinished
ROP 30kg: classic20-11-2023 till 10-03-202316 weeks (unfinished)Till week 12. Could make it but sleep deprived because new dog
ROP 32kg: classic15-04-2023 till
Future: ROP 32kg: classicCompress rest

Snatch progression
I do volume cycles for snatches 2x per week. Started with a 16kg, 20kg and now for 24kg. I'm at step 8 now with the 24kg. Step 8 does not mean week 8. Many times i need to repeat a same step for 3-4 weeks before i feel practices enough to progress.
StepRepsSets EMOM
15+54 Sets
25+56 sets
35+58 sets
45+510 sets
55+512 sets
65+514 sets
75+516 sets
85+518 sets
95+520 sets
After that i'm planning to do a density cycle with the 24 and see how far it will take me.
105+520 sets
116+616 sets
127+714 sets
138+812 sets
149+911 sets
1510+1010 sets

Some learnings along the way:
1: Sleep
2. Long term approach: What really helped me it to make a really long term approach. Don't get injured but keep pushing yourself! Most people just don't work hard enough.
3: Rest times: On hard and medium day's I do watch the rest times and try to limit it. On Light days however i try to do the eccentric as slow as humanly possible and squeeze. That gives one hell of a pump and might even be the hardest day this way.
4: Diet and sleep are crucial. Especially sleep.
5: For ROP Cycles with the 28 and 30, i needed to tailor down accessory work. Once i added reps of 5 i stopped doing the chinups and snatches/swings on the heavy day and even sometimes skipped them on medium days to manage fatigue and recovery.
6: Sleep more
7: Don't compare yourself to some of the frequent posters on here. Believe me, most people wont make it to the 1/2 BW press and SSST. Which is fine bytheway cause its just an arbritairy goal and has little meaning on how strong/ big/ athletic you are. Most people are better off progressing to a 2KB programme earlyer and you will gain a lot more muscle sooner that way. I even think you can het to the RoP goal faster that way to be honest.
8: Sleep. Please. Its the cornerstone of any good program.

Conclusion:
At least 2 more cycles to go. So i will see all you guys in another 200 days or so.

Once i have made the 1/2 bodyweight press goal and the SSST goal i will make a bigger post with some more specifics and learnings along the way and what i would do different if i would do it again. (probably progress to 2 KB's earlyer and don't be so stuckup with getting to the RoP standard first.
 
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Bakker91 said:
7: Don't compare yourself to some of the frequent posters on here. Believe me, most people wont make it to the 1/2 BW press and SSST. Which is fine bytheway cause its just an arbritairy goal and has little meaning on how strong/ big/ athletic you are. Most people are better off progressing to a 2KB programme earlyer and you will gain a lot more muscle sooner that way. I even think you can het to the RoP goal faster that way to be honest.
8: Sleep. Please. Its the cornerstone of any good program.
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Half bodyweight presser here. My top tip is (seriously) low body weight. It's just a goal, better would be as you imply, keep walking the road/embracing the journey.

However for me as a small person, an arbitrary number like 240kg DL would be (sorta) impossible. For that... Either get stronger or get a high bodyweight .
 
@Joel the Savage You are one of those monsters on here ;-). I took note of some of your tips on here with the 3,5,7 rep range and made a plan for when i stall weight. Which happens often.

ROP progression:
Step 1: Complete ROP twice with given weight. Do test every once in a while but keep completing it even if you get to 5 reps next weight. You need the volume cause you are average and its sets you up for success the next cycle.

Decision: Comfortable 5 Rep max with next weight up? Got do a heavyer classic ROP. If not

Step 2:
2,3,5 progression. Had to do this one to get from 24 to 28kg ROP.
Heavy
Week Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Set 6 Set 7
1 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5
2 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5
3 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5
4 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5
5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5

Medium
Week Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Set 6
1 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5
2 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5
3 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5
4 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5
5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5

Light
Week Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4
1 2-3-5 2-3-5
2 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5
3 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5
4 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5
5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5 2-3-5

Decision: Comfortable 5 Rep max with next weight up? Got do a heavyer classic ROP. If not

Stap 3:
3-5-7 progression. If tested this once with the 28 but it was too much too soon for me. I do however think i'm going to need this to break the 1/2 bw press.

Heavy:
Week Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Volume
1 3-5-7 3-5-7 3-5-7 45
2 3-5-7 3-5-7 3-5-7 3-5-7 60
3 3-5-7 3-5-7 3-5-7 3-5-7 3-5-7 75
4 3-5-7 3-5-7 3-5-7 3-5-7 3-5-7 75

Medium:
Week Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Volume
1 3-5-7 3-5-7 30
2 3-5-7 3-5-7 3-5-7 45
3 3-5-7 3-5-7 3-5-7 3-5-7 60
4 3-5-7 3-5-7 3-5-7 3-5-7 60

Light:
Week Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Volume
1 3-5-7 15
2 3-5-7 3-5-7 30
3 3-5-7 3-5-7 3-5-7 45
4 3-5-7 3-5-7 3-5-7 45

Yesterday was day 1 of the new cycle and i might need to adapt a bit with the rep weight. I might do 1,2,3 with the 32 and 4 and 5 with the 30 but is is too early to know for sure. It fits the main narrative of completing the ROP cycle's with the same weight first.
 
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