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Kettlebell S&S 2.0 Question

acutaiar12

Level 6 Valued Member
Hi everyone,

I just read S&S 2.0 for the first time (I always thought 2.0 was the original). It was a really good read and it went into much greater depth on some doubts I had like the talk test and progressions. I just have one question and wanted to see what other’s have thought and/or have done.

When someone reaches the point of shooting for timed Sinister (48kg for men and 32kg for women), are they supposed to already be swinging the size heavier? (56kg for men and 36kg for women)

Or are you supposed to stay with swings and get ups at the Sinister weight, but increase intensity by other means such as increased power during the swings, super slow get ups, or increase frequency to 5-6x a week instead of 3-4x, etc?
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
Hi everyone,

I just read S&S 2.0 for the first time (I always thought 2.0 was the original). It was a really good read and it went into much greater depth on some doubts I had like the talk test and progressions. I just have one question and wanted to see what other’s have thought and/or have done.

When someone reaches the point of shooting for timed Sinister (48kg for men and 32kg for women), are they supposed to already be swinging the size heavier? (56kg for men and 36kg for women)

Or are you supposed to stay with swings and get ups at the Sinister weight, but increase intensity by other means such as increased power during the swings, super slow get ups, or increase frequency to 5-6x a week instead of 3-4x, etc?

That's a great question. I think there are a few ways to approach it, and you would have to survey everyone on the Sinister list to know for sure, but my thought is that while that may work for Simple, (continuing to develop same strength using heavier weight), it wouldn't would so well for Sinister, because it takes such a specialized strength to get to the Sinister bell. So it's more likely your second answer, using other training stimulus to get there.

Just speaking for myself, I did thousands of 32kg swings prior to Sinister, but probably less than 100 1H swings ever with 36 or 40kg. However, I do 2H swings with 40, 48kg.

And while we're on the subject, the amazing StrongFirst Instructor Jackie Michaels Vazquez did Sinister with the 36kg the other day! You can hear about her training here.

 

BJJ Shawn

Level 6 Valued Member
Here is one program that Pavel wrote to help you get from Simple to Sinister, in which he basically prescribes doing more work with the sinister bell (up to 200 swings and 20 TGU per session). It is not the only method, but one I have seen people post about using.

 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
Here is one program that Pavel wrote to help you get from Simple to Sinister, in which he basically prescribes doing more work with the sinister bell (up to 200 swings and 20 TGU per session). It is not the only method, but one I have seen people post about using.


Saw a post about that today in StrongFirst FB group

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acutaiar12

Level 6 Valued Member
That's a great question. I think there are a few ways to approach it, and you would have to survey everyone on the Sinister list to know for sure, but my thought is that while that may work for Simple, (continuing to develop same strength using heavier weight), it wouldn't would so well for Sinister, because it takes such a specialized strength to get to the Sinister bell. So it's more likely your second answer, using other training stimulus to get there.

Just speaking for myself, I did thousands of 32kg swings prior to Sinister, but probably less than 100 1H swings ever with 36 or 40kg. However, I do 2H swings with 40, 48kg.
I was thinking this as well. It makes sense that the heavier the weight and the sheer size of the beast, the more specific work is needed to own the timed standards.
 

acutaiar12

Level 6 Valued Member
And while we're on the subject, the amazing StrongFirst Instructor Jackie Michaels Vazquez did Sinister with the 36kg the other day! You can hear about her training here.

And this is awesome!! Huge congrats!!

Sinister is already such an ambitious goal, and seeing someone go beyond Sinister is such a motivation!
 

Adachi

Level 6 Valued Member
Here is one program that Pavel wrote to help you get from Simple to Sinister, in which he basically prescribes doing more work with the sinister bell (up to 200 swings and 20 TGU per session). It is not the only method, but one I have seen people post about using.

I remember distinctly, after waiting for months for my 32kg bell to arrive working my way up to 200 swings and repping the TGU 2x and 3x in a row (out of sheer boredom). And when I got the 32kg bell, I distinctly remember a certain amount of ease with handling it . Surprisingly so.

Upping the volume (at least temporarily) ; 5 stars , would recommend .
 

Mark Limbaga

Level 8 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
Agree 100% with @Anna C that what works to unlock simple may not necessarily unlock sinister..

I remember when I first unlocked timed simple, I was working on the 24kg snatch test. Unlocking the timed 36kg standard, I attained by doing 5 one arm swings on the minute for higher volume one size up.

For getups though, I have found if you can do a getup for the timeless standard one size up from the bell you're aiming to unlock the timed standard with, the latter is usually within reach or already there.
 

acutaiar12

Level 6 Valued Member
Hi everyone, I have another question about the S.S 2.0 programming. Since I’ve already created this thread, I thought I might as well ask it in here too instead of creating a new one.

My get ups are miles ahead of my swings in terms of strength. As of right now, I’m increasing the weight from 28 kg to 36 kg for my swings, and from 36 kg to 48 kg on my get ups.

In S&S 2.0, Pavel wrote that once you achieve “Timeless” Simple, you should decrease the frequency from near daily to 3-4x a week. On the swings, I haven’t achieved “timeless” simple, but I have surpassed this on my get ups. I can do 10 get ups with the 36kg almost daily and recover fine, but just adding one set each with the 48 kg changes that. But I still recover fine with my swings.

My question is, can I decrease the frequency with the get ups and still keep the same frequency with the swings? I’ll give you an example of a week of training I’m envisioning.

Monday:
•One Arm Swings 10x10
•Get Ups 10x1

Tuesday:
•One Arm Swings 10x10
•Get Ups 10x1

Wednesday:
•Two Arm Swings 10x10
•No Get Ups

Thursday:
•One Arm Swings 10x10
•Get Ups 10x1

Friday:
•One Arm Swings 10x10
•Get Ups 10x1

Saturday:
•Two Arm Swings 10x10
•No Get Ups

Sunday: Off
 

Pete L

Level 5 Valued Member
I'd be tempted to shake things up and perhaps try StrongFirst Kettlebells protocol (BJJ). The 5 rep EMOM might get you more comfortable with a higher mass.
 
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