Gravytrain
Level 5 Valued Member
Because of some past injuries I use the smaller jumps and its worked great for me
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SuperGirevik
Level 3 Valued Member
@Bret S. - I understand your point completely. But wanting to move up in weight more quickly and efficiently isn’t a need, it’s a desire. My point was that Pavel kept his book as simple as possible.
But like I said, I don’t feel that Pavel, or StrongFirst for that matter, has anything against smaller incremental increases. In other words we shouldn’t feel guilty because we made a 4kg jump.
But like I said, I don’t feel that Pavel, or StrongFirst for that matter, has anything against smaller incremental increases. In other words we shouldn’t feel guilty because we made a 4kg jump.
Tim Randolph
Level 7 Valued Member
I am about the same size as Oscar, and am making much smoother progress with S&S now that I have a 28kg bell.
I hit the 32kg wall a couple of times before, so I am letting practically trump purity and have loved the results. Pavel did an amazing job with his one size fits all approach, but when the size doesn’t fit, it’s ok to adjust. Just remember to stay true to the basic program design and philosophy.
I hit the 32kg wall a couple of times before, so I am letting practically trump purity and have loved the results. Pavel did an amazing job with his one size fits all approach, but when the size doesn’t fit, it’s ok to adjust. Just remember to stay true to the basic program design and philosophy.
fractal
Level 7 Valued Member
I've got some funny weights myself 16, 24, 30, 36 in singles and am about to pick up a second 24.
I would really like a 20 as well but have limited space and unique living situation that limits how many bells I can keep inside at once (my house is on tall piles on a steep section, so I don't want to overload my training room).
I found moving from 24 to 30 in S&S to be very manageable (although I didn't finish making the transition before moving on), but will almost certainly buy a 28 for snatches when I'm ready. If space and expense are no concern, I think more options are better.
I would really like a 20 as well but have limited space and unique living situation that limits how many bells I can keep inside at once (my house is on tall piles on a steep section, so I don't want to overload my training room).
I found moving from 24 to 30 in S&S to be very manageable (although I didn't finish making the transition before moving on), but will almost certainly buy a 28 for snatches when I'm ready. If space and expense are no concern, I think more options are better.
dc
Level 7 Valued Member
@Oscar there is nothing wrong with 4kg increments at all, the main thing is to not hurt yourself.
In saying that though I think it’s your stubbornness that’s causing you issues & not the 32. When I was transitioning from 24 to 32 I added 1 set right & left at a time. That set might include anything from 1-10 reps depending on how I felt. I just made sure they were sharp explosive reps, good days = more reps, bad days sometimes only 1. I didn’t tie myself to having complete 100reps total every session. Once I could get 5 quality reps regularly without any issues I started working in set number 2 right/left following same process. Eventually I was doing 10sets of 5reps exclusively with 32 & not using 24. Then slowly 1 set at a time I’d start creeping up to 7reps etc. Over (a lot of) time I ended doing the full 10\10 with the 32. Even on the days when I only did 1 rep my body still got to feel the 32 & get use to the weight.
In saying that though I think it’s your stubbornness that’s causing you issues & not the 32. When I was transitioning from 24 to 32 I added 1 set right & left at a time. That set might include anything from 1-10 reps depending on how I felt. I just made sure they were sharp explosive reps, good days = more reps, bad days sometimes only 1. I didn’t tie myself to having complete 100reps total every session. Once I could get 5 quality reps regularly without any issues I started working in set number 2 right/left following same process. Eventually I was doing 10sets of 5reps exclusively with 32 & not using 24. Then slowly 1 set at a time I’d start creeping up to 7reps etc. Over (a lot of) time I ended doing the full 10\10 with the 32. Even on the days when I only did 1 rep my body still got to feel the 32 & get use to the weight.
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Brookes
Level 5 Valued Member
At my first try to implement the 32kg I did it slowly with 4x5 as well. Then upped the volume to 8x5. Did this two weeks and it really felt good, but somehow I tweaked a muscle in my upper back.
This forced me to go back to the 24kg since there was nearly no pain. At this point I decided to do 4 weeks with the 24kg as "reha work". Funny thing is, after this four weeks I was able to handle the 32 kg much easier and all felt more stable. Compared to the first try which also felt really good.
Meanwhile I bought a 28kg to do one of Craig Markers experimental plans which needs different bells.
Long story short:
I never regretted the setback to the 24 kg since I have the feeling it prepared me better for the 32. But you need the patience for the 8kg steps and the ego to accept that it seems there is no real progress in weight and only a little bit in time, but somehing is happening nonetheless. The easier and perhaps faster way would be the 28kg. I must confess, if I possessed it earlier I would have progressed with it instead...
This forced me to go back to the 24kg since there was nearly no pain. At this point I decided to do 4 weeks with the 24kg as "reha work". Funny thing is, after this four weeks I was able to handle the 32 kg much easier and all felt more stable. Compared to the first try which also felt really good.
Meanwhile I bought a 28kg to do one of Craig Markers experimental plans which needs different bells.
Long story short:
I never regretted the setback to the 24 kg since I have the feeling it prepared me better for the 32. But you need the patience for the 8kg steps and the ego to accept that it seems there is no real progress in weight and only a little bit in time, but somehing is happening nonetheless. The easier and perhaps faster way would be the 28kg. I must confess, if I possessed it earlier I would have progressed with it instead...
Bret S.
Level 9 Valued Member
@Oscar
Reading the replies here there are lots of good ways to skin this cat, probably as many different methods as there are people who have achieved the simple standard. I'm sure it'll work out for you one way or another no matter what weights or method you choose to use.. Next year you'll hardly remember this little speed bump in progress
Reading the replies here there are lots of good ways to skin this cat, probably as many different methods as there are people who have achieved the simple standard. I'm sure it'll work out for you one way or another no matter what weights or method you choose to use.. Next year you'll hardly remember this little speed bump in progress
banzaiengr
Level 6 Valued Member
Just my opinion but I believe that whether to use 4K or 8K jumps has to be put into context. In the book, IF Pavel is speaking of someone that will do sinister then the 8K jumps up to 40K for sure make since. But if you are speaking of someone who will max out at 32K then the 4K jumps make more since.
Look at it like any other lift. Progression isn't linear. Maybe when you start out but not as you get closer to your potential. Look at a lift like the bench press, once a natural lifter gets close to his potential a 5 lb. gain in a year is a heck of an accomplishment. Just saying...
Look at it like any other lift. Progression isn't linear. Maybe when you start out but not as you get closer to your potential. Look at a lift like the bench press, once a natural lifter gets close to his potential a 5 lb. gain in a year is a heck of an accomplishment. Just saying...
Marc
Level 6 Valued Member
The main idea behind big jumps is to "force" you into accumulating a lot of volume.
This works better for some people/exercises and less good for others.
I see absolutely no reason not to do 4kg jumps (which also isn't a small jump compared to those 1.25kg microplates) on whichever exercise you think it might benefit you especially on everything overhead.
This works better for some people/exercises and less good for others.
I see absolutely no reason not to do 4kg jumps (which also isn't a small jump compared to those 1.25kg microplates) on whichever exercise you think it might benefit you especially on everything overhead.
Oscar
Level 7 Valued Member
thanks all for the replies. Fortunately all the issues I had were near misses, nothing serious (I think). I practiced today and did 2 sets of 10 swings with the 28, it felt really good. The rest I did with the 24.
There seems to be a consensus here that the 4 kg jumps are quite useful and no reason not to use them, if the kettlebell is available.
My experience with the 28 is that it feels heavy enough to be challenging, but not so heavy that its an all-out effort that compromises technique. This also applies to the TGU, which I can do 10 in 10 minutes with the 32. It seems to go very much in line with the "practice" spirit of S&S. I could do sets of 10 with the 32, but it just doesnt feel that way. Having read about so many others having issues jumping to the 32, I wonder why the intermediate weights are not used more often.
There seems to be a consensus here that the 4 kg jumps are quite useful and no reason not to use them, if the kettlebell is available.
My experience with the 28 is that it feels heavy enough to be challenging, but not so heavy that its an all-out effort that compromises technique. This also applies to the TGU, which I can do 10 in 10 minutes with the 32. It seems to go very much in line with the "practice" spirit of S&S. I could do sets of 10 with the 32, but it just doesnt feel that way. Having read about so many others having issues jumping to the 32, I wonder why the intermediate weights are not used more often.
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Joeyboy
Level 4 Valued Member
Interesting thread. I know since I have been using the 24kg for one hand swings, I don't know if i could jump to 32kg once I am done with this. Going from 16 to 24 was a little difficult and took me a good month or so to use one hand on the 24kg, strict. And at the current rate, I will be 24kg for....I don't know how long.
The issue is it seems to be a slow progression so I am thinking a 4kg jump may be a quicker progression than an 8kg.
Also, I know you are stronger as you progress up in weights, but, there is a limit. One can't just keep jumping 8kg indefinitely with herculean one handed strength. I think 4kg makes sense as you start to hit higher kg. Of course my high is probably low for everyone else, here.
Just a thought.
The issue is it seems to be a slow progression so I am thinking a 4kg jump may be a quicker progression than an 8kg.
Also, I know you are stronger as you progress up in weights, but, there is a limit. One can't just keep jumping 8kg indefinitely with herculean one handed strength. I think 4kg makes sense as you start to hit higher kg. Of course my high is probably low for everyone else, here.
Just a thought.
Terry McCarthy
Level 7 Valued Member
Do what you feel is right for you. If you think the 28 is helpful, go for it.
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Oscar
Level 7 Valued Member
I have liked lots of bad ideas in the past, so getting a second opinion doesnt hurt.
Steve W.
Level 8 Valued Member
A wise man makes up his mind FOR himself, but only a fool makes up his mind BY himself.
There are lots of ways to slice and dice this, e.g, go back to lower volume with the heavier weight but use it exclusively and don’t worry about the swing height to start. IOW, do what many have done when they started S and S.
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