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Kettlebell S&S and 1 hand swing

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Varjag31

Varjag31

Level 3 Valued Member
Hi everyone, My name is Mihael, I'm 39 years old.


I've been lurking in here for a while, picked up tons of great info over time, thanks everyone for that.


I've been playing around with kettlebells for a while, but lately I finally decided to commit 100% to the S&S program. Big progress came after I decided to use a HR monitor, to slow things down. Suddenly, my practices do not leave me wiped out and consequentially I am focused from the first to the last rep, I've probably corrected more of my technique within this month, than in a previous year.


I'm going strong in the 2h swing with a 24kg , and I'm switching the TGU between 16 and 24, depending on the day.


My next goal is to learn 1h swing, and this is where the things get a little complicated:


I used the trick mentioned in one of the articles - mix 2h and 1h swing in the same set, and let the 2h teach the 1h. Immediatelly, I started noticing the flaws.


2) My hinge is way off on one side. With the left hand it is almost identical to the 2h, the torso stays centered. When I'm holding the kettlebell in my right hand, I shoot the hips back diagonally to the righ, bending my spine sideways. (Right QL hiking the hip up), so the hinge ends up having a diagonal sway rather than straight back and forward. This happens even if I attempt it with the 8kg.


I've visited a chiropracor and there is no real structural issues. I'm kinda hoping that 1h swing would solve some of these side-to-side imbalances over time


Wether the issue is motorical or strength, my plan to fix it, is to start doing some side planks and using a suitcase deadlift to teach myself how to do a hinge while loaded from one side. Also, 1h deadlifts from the middle while paying attention to the torso in the mirror, to mimic the twisting force when the KB is between the legs. I would do this daily, with a lighter bell, after the normal practice.


Am I thinking in the right direction here? Do these things daily for a couple of weeks, and then try to transfer it to the 1h swing?


Thanks for the advice,


Mihael
 
Welcome Mihael! That sounds like a perfect plan to me. Only thing better would be to get some hands-on coaching from an SFG Instructor.
 
In addition to above excellent replies, just in case there are "nervous system" issues (this from my own experience), you might try doing a whole bunch of slow "swings" with no load and then minimal load (start w/ a can of soup etc) and, using mirror if necessary, groove perfect form with both sides. Start on the side that is already working for you. If you do a few dozen of these every day for a few days, you will train your nervous system what the pattern feels like. I have used this to wake up muscles with sensory motor amnesia acquired through injuries and surgeries. Treat it like a meditation, slow and patient.
 
Remember to play chicken with the kettlebell when performing the one hand swing. Stay upright as long as possible, and hinge when you have to let the kettlebell pass through your legs. Your knees should bend slightly, but your hips should be moving far more. I learned that watching @Anna C perform the one hand swing in a video. I was bending my knees too much, and twisting diagonally like you are describing.

Another thing that might help is a video of your swings, or perform them in front of a mirror, and see if you are bending at the waist & hinging backwards, or bending your knees and twisting diagonally.

The best idea would be what has already been said, visit a SFG instructor, who might find a different cause for your issue.

Oh, I almost forgot, welcome to the forum @Varjag31 !!!
 
Varjag31 said:
using a suitcase deadlift to teach myself how to do a hinge while loaded from one side. Also, 1h deadlifts from the middle while paying attention to the torso in the mirror, to mimic the twisting force when the KB is between the legs. I would do this daily, with a lighter bell, after the normal practice.
Click to expand...

Good thinking.

I was going to suggest the one arm KBDL (sumo style, as you describe, with the bell between the legs). Once you are able to groove the pattern in the DL, I would go heavier with these rather than lighter, with a heavier bell than your swing bell if you have one.

GeoffreyLevens said:
In addition to above excellent replies, just in case there are "nervous system" issues (this from my own experience), you might try doing a whole bunch of slow "swings" with no load and then minimal load (start w/ a can of soup etc) and, using mirror if necessary, groove perfect form with both sides. Start on the side that is already working for you. If you do a few dozen of these every day for a few days, you will train your nervous system what the pattern feels like. I have used this to wake up muscles with sensory motor amnesia acquired through injuries and surgeries. Treat it like a meditation, slow and patient.
Click to expand...

You might take @GeoffreyLevens' suggestion to establish the pattern unloaded and then with a light weight first, but once you get the pattern grooved, I think using a heavier weight will help you to transfer it to the ballistic swing.

Michael Scott said:
The best idea would be what has already been said, visit a SFG instructor, who might find a different cause for your issue.
Click to expand...

Posting a video or working in person with an instructor is a good idea. There may be other issues with your swing that are the real root of the problem you are observing.
 
Thanks for the welcome and all the replies, It looks like generally I'm looking into the right direction. I already planned to visit an instructor anyway, to clean up my technique. It does take some time and travel, so it will have to wait for a bit. Meanwhile, I'll see how it goes in the next few weeks.

Just as a curious sidenote, I noticed that when I am doing the swings, if I'm having a straight, locked in neck, rather than watching a fixed spot on infront and moving with the swing (not overly), I rutinely end up with 3-5 lower HR on the last swing. Anyone knows an explanation for that?
 
One more thing, I'm not sure if it wI'll help the 1 hand swing. But I started going explosive box squats with body weight when I was on vacation last week. Sitting back as far as possible, with a tight pop up. My swings felt alot stronger yesterday when I got back to my bells.
 
One other thought would be to video your one hand swing and study where it breaks down. You might find a lot of the discrepancy is feel and not visible mechanics.

Or you might notice a single consistent point where the wheels come off and correcting this one issue straightens out everything that follows - in my own case when trying to become ambi at a given movement it usually falters early and never recovers. Correcting this initial defect cleans up the entire movement.

Heavy two handed swings can teach you a lot about one handed swing, also doing alternating swings with each rep - catch the bell at the crest, is another good way to learn. Sometimes the form will drift after a handful of reps but the first one is on the money. With alternating swings every one is the "first" one.
 
Hi @Varjag31 two ideas for you to try: One is the face-the wall squat from Enter The Kettlebell. As you stand close to the wall, if your movement is not symmetric one knee might go closer to the wall, etc.

Other idea: do a hip hinge pattern standing in front of a wall, so that your butt barely touches the wall at the bottom position. If your spine is assymetrical, one cheek will probably touch the wall before the other. This will also force you to hinge backwards.

In any case, if you can get guidance from a SFG, do it!
 
Try 2 hand swings, but with one hand not gripping the bell at all, just resting a closed fist on the handle or on the working hand. Might want to be outside in case you accidentally release both grips! This helped me learn the groove with 1 hand swings.
 
Hello,

@Varjag31
Single leg deadlift, pistol squat can be excellent assistance exercises to work on core stabilization.

Regarding the upperback, it can comes from a "weakness" in the trapeizus. Then, it can make you bend the upper back. Shoulder pack also helps a lot to get a whole straight back.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Just an update: After the all the helpful replies, I spent little less than a month practicing 1h deadlift and a suitcase deadlift, in front of a mirror with my back to the wall to groove the hinge. I was doing it really slowly, focusing on packing the shoulder and shooting the hips strait back. Yesterday I played with the 1h swing again after a while, and the form improved a lot. There is very little difference between the sides - time for me to start putting in the mileage I guess :)

Just a quick technical question - In the bottom position of the swing, if I try to keep as straight horizontally (line of shoulders as closes as possible to parallel with the floor), the kettlebell lands on my upper thigh just as with 2h swing and I end up shooting it a little bit to the side, or if I miss the time just a bit, it slides towards the center, losing steam as the hips shoot forward. Am I supposed allow the twist just enough that the kettlebell ends up straight between my legs, so that I can shoot it straight out?

I'm aware it could be just a timing thing, because I have not spent nearly enough time with the exercise, just thought I check while I'm at it.

Thanks,

Mihael
 
Oscar said:
Hi @Varjag31 two ideas for you to try: One is the face-the wall squat from Enter The Kettlebell. As you stand close to the wall, if your movement is not symmetric one knee might go closer to the wall, etc.

Other idea: do a hip hinge pattern standing in front of a wall, so that your butt barely touches the wall at the bottom position. If your spine is assymetrical, one cheek will probably touch the wall before the other. This will also force you to hinge backwards.

In any case, if you can get guidance from a SFG, do it!
Click to expand...
Great tip!
 
Varjag31 said:
Hi everyone, My name is Mihael, I'm 39 years old.


I've been lurking in here for a while, picked up tons of great info over time, thanks everyone for that.


I've been playing around with kettlebells for a while, but lately I finally decided to commit 100% to the S&S program. Big progress came after I decided to use a HR monitor, to slow things down. Suddenly, my practices do not leave me wiped out and consequentially I am focused from the first to the last rep, I've probably corrected more of my technique within this month, than in a previous year.


I'm going strong in the 2h swing with a 24kg , and I'm switching the TGU between 16 and 24, depending on the day.


My next goal is to learn 1h swing, and this is where the things get a little complicated:


I used the trick mentioned in one of the articles - mix 2h and 1h swing in the same set, and let the 2h teach the 1h. Immediatelly, I started noticing the flaws.


2) My hinge is way off on one side. With the left hand it is almost identical to the 2h, the torso stays centered. When I'm holding the kettlebell in my right hand, I shoot the hips back diagonally to the righ, bending my spine sideways. (Right QL hiking the hip up), so the hinge ends up having a diagonal sway rather than straight back and forward. This happens even if I attempt it with the 8kg.


I've visited a chiropracor and there is no real structural issues. I'm kinda hoping that 1h swing would solve some of these side-to-side imbalances over time


Wether the issue is motorical or strength, my plan to fix it, is to start doing some side planks and using a suitcase deadlift to teach myself how to do a hinge while loaded from one side. Also, 1h deadlifts from the middle while paying attention to the torso in the mirror, to mimic the twisting force when the KB is between the legs. I would do this daily, with a lighter bell, after the normal practice.


Am I thinking in the right direction here? Do these things daily for a couple of weeks, and then try to transfer it to the 1h swing?


Thanks for the advice,


Mihael
Click to expand...
I recommend you find a certified Strong First kettlebell instructor to help you. If you don't have an issue which needs medical attention perhaps they can diagnose the problem and provide you with some solutions.
 
Robert Noftz said:
I recommend you find a certified Strong First kettlebell instructor to help you. If you don't have an issue which needs medical attention perhaps they can diagnose the problem and provide you with some solutions.
Click to expand...
Is that something you have considered?
 
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