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Kettlebell S&S training question

Ejnc214

Level 1 Valued Member
Hi new to the forum and to the program. Hopefully I’m posting in the right section haven’t been on a forum in years I’m usually on Reddit.

I’m reading thru S&S and have finished simple and about to start reading Sinister. I plan on starting the program tomorrow morning. I have a 16kg which is a weight I’m relatively familiar with. I plan on training 3x a week because I already train BJJ and have a personal trainer I train with 2x a week who helps me with BJJ conditioning whom I’ve trained with for years. Adding S&S I’ll be changing how much I’ll be training with him might take a break with him to pursue and get in depth with KBs.

In the book if we’re not ready to go 8kg heavier than our current KB we can go 4kg heavier, which is what I’m leaning into. Now would my training regiment 3days a week be like this:

Weeks 1-4: 16kg TGU 5/1. Swings 10/10 with one of those 3days being a double arm swing.

Now because I plan on increasing 4kg heavier than 16kg for my heavy KB it would be split into two weeks? Weeks 5/6 would be like 2-3 sets of the swings will be 20kg and the TGU will be 20Kg with one day out of the 3 being double arm swing also 1 or 2 of those sessions will be just 20kg. Weeks 7/8 will be 2 or all 3 sessions will be 20kg including one day being a double arm.

Would this be a proper way of progressing? I apologize in advanced if it’s a bit confusing I’m trying my best to understand the lay out in the book also because I’m not doing it 5 days a week is probably why I’m asking this question

Thank you for your responses!
 
I've heard (and agree with) that if you can lift a Kettlebell 10 times with normal effort then its time to get a heavier one.
If you afford more kettlebells with smaller weight increments then go for it.

When I do my S&S workouts, I begin light and move up in weight. My last couple sets are with a 70 lbs but I can't do 10 reps.
I am used to pyramiding the weight from bodybuilding. I don't think most people do it that way.
 
There are two progressions laid out in the book for men.

The first is 8kg jumps with four weeks per step I.e you add 2 sets with the next bell every 4 weeks. On this progression it takes 20 weeks to move up fully to the next bell.

The second is 4kg jumps with 2 weeks per step. So you add 2 sets with +4kg every 2 weeks. This progression will take ten weeks for +4kg and 20 weeks for +8kg.

The rate of progress is ultimately the same but the smaller jumps will be less of a shock. I’ve been running +4kg jumps and finding it very reliable. You could use a different progression for each lift if you wanted to.

it seems sensible to run +4kg progression with less frequency. You could increase the steps if you wanted - 3 or 4 weeks per step - to accumulate 9-12 sessions if desired.

Try it out and see how it goes.
 
I was doing S&S in conjunction with 3-4 days a week of climbing/training. Because of this I only did swing and getups 3 days a week, but kept the 'warmup' almost every day. I also made the 4kg jump instead of 8kg.

Because of the reduced frequency, I added a 'step' every month instead of two weeks. I also kept all the reps/ steps the same weight throughout the process. This was a 'background' program, and having the EASIEST possible programming made it decision-proof. I just had to focus on every rep and not have to make a single decision.

May - 10x10, 5+5 16kg
June - 16kg, 20kg, 16, 16, 16
July - 16 kg, 20kg, 20, 16, 16
August - 16, 20, 20, 20, 16
ETC.

This worked great! If you want to progress a little faster, the only tweak I would add is making the 'jumps' each session 8kg. I have since added this in and it makes getting used to the heavier sets much easier. As all my KB work runs in addition to my climbing, I have found preserving the 8kg jumps takes a bit less out of me each session.

20, 28, 20, 20, 20
vs
24, 28, 24, 24, 24

The former was a better progression to get from 24 to 28.
 
I moved up in weight when I could meet the timed protocol with the bell currently being used.
And when I moved up, I only added the heavier bell but one set per week counted towards the whole. 2nd week add two sets per new weight etc.
 
3 S&S days a week, BJJ X days per week and 2 days with a trainer sounds like too much. You may need to reduce somthing whether it be S&S, BJJ or trainer is up to you. If BJJ is your prime interest then perhaps start out with S&S 2 days/week and BJJ practice which I presume is 3-4 days per week. Start light and build your skill in the movements. Be aware that during those TGU weight jumps the weight is straight above your head, any loss of control could be disastrous. You should ensure you find the existing weight light and under well control before you try and shift up a level. Having said that I keep on hearing from BJJ people on this forum and elsewhere that S&S works really well for them.
 
oab said:
3 S&S days a week, BJJ X days per week and 2 days with a trainer sounds like too much. You may need to reduce somthing whether it be S&S, BJJ or trainer is up to you. If BJJ is your prime interest then perhaps start out with S&S 2 days/week and BJJ practice which I presume is 3-4 days per week. Start light and build your skill in the movements. Be aware that during those TGU weight jumps the weight is straight above your head, any loss of control could be disastrous. You should ensure you find the existing weight light and under well control before you try and shift up a level. Having said that I keep on hearing from BJJ people on this forum and elsewhere that S&S works really well for them.
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I usually do 2x a week with my PT and 2x a week bjj most days because classes are at night and I work swing but I’m planning on postponing training with my coach just so I can beast at this program and just focus on it for the next month or so. Was planning on competing end of June but gonna instead compete mid august. I’ve actually done TGU twice before with 35lbs and it does help this was during S&C with my coach and it’s challenging but the benefits are legit. Thank you for your reply. I’ll also be working with a KB coach in the nearby city doing drop in classes once a week. I’m gonna go for the 5 day week S&S and see got it works. Thank you again!
 
Archer said:
I moved up in weight when I could meet the timed protocol with the bell currently being used.
And when I moved up, I only added the heavier bell but one set per week counted towards the whole. 2nd week add two sets per new weight etc.
Click to expand...
I’ll keep that in mind thank you
 
jayjo said:
I've heard (and agree with) that if you can lift a Kettlebell 10 times with normal effort then its time to get a heavier one.
If you afford more kettlebells with smaller weight increments then go for it.

When I do my S&S workouts, I begin light and move up in weight. My last couple sets are with a 70 lbs but I can't do 10 reps.
I am used to pyramiding the weight from bodybuilding. I don't think most people do it that way.
Click to expand...
I won’t lie I’ve been doing S&S for the last two days and the swings at 35lbs go by fast and my rests aren’t that long. Of course the TGUs are the most challenging but doable. Maybe I’m just overthinking it cause I’ve swing 44lbs I believe as my heaviest at request of my trainer.
 
Ejnc214 said:
I bought it but some parts are just hard to understand
Click to expand...
Feel free to ask questions about parts you don't understand.

As for what you asked about, 8kg jumps use a full month between steps and 4kg jumps use 2 weeks between steps.

Weeks 1-4 : 10 sets @ 16kg
Weeks 5-6: 8 sets @ 16kg, 2 @ 20kg
Weeks 7-8 : 6 sets @ 16kg, 4 @ 20kg

... and so on and so forth. If you don't feel comfortable adding full sets, or sets at that rate, you can always go slower - e.g. spending a month at each step, or with the get up - working on partials, or with the swings - working on dead stop.

If you're doing less than 3 sessions a week, you might need to spend more time on each step than suggested. But that can be a "play it by ear" thing - if you're struggling, failing, or not seeing progress - slow down, take more time. For the recommended two week intervals, I like to see AT LEAST 6 sessions (4 one hand swing sessions, 2 two hand swing sessions) before following the progression.

Personally, sometimes I needed a full month at each step to "solidify" my progress even with the 4kg jumps, particularly when the weights get heavier (whatever weight that is for you). For me this was especially true with getups.

From my understanding of the book (revision/version 2) you do NOT need to pass the timed test with a bell to start incorporating the next bell.

I'll let @Steve Freides judge whether/when we are sharing "too much" from the book. Out of respect for the book, specific questions might be best reserved for PM. Feel free to message me.

Hope that's been helpful.
 
John K said:
Feel free to ask questions about parts you don't understand.

As for what you asked about, 8kg jumps use a full month between steps and 4kg jumps use 2 weeks between steps.

Weeks 1-4 : 10 sets @ 16kg
Weeks 5-6: 8 sets @ 16kg, 2 @ 20kg
Weeks 7-8 : 6 sets @ 16kg, 4 @ 20kg

... and so on and so forth. If you don't feel comfortable adding full sets, or sets at that rate, you can always go slower - e.g. spending a month at each step, or with the get up - working on partials, or with the swings - working on dead stop.

If you're doing less than 3 sessions a week, you might need to spend more time on each step than suggested. But that can be a "play it by ear" thing - if you're struggling, failing, or not seeing progress - slow down, take more time. For the recommended two week intervals, I like to see AT LEAST 6 sessions (4 one hand swing sessions, 2 two hand swing sessions) before following the progression.

Personally, sometimes I needed a full month at each step to "solidify" my progress even with the 4kg jumps, particularly when the weights get heavier (whatever weight that is for you). For me this was especially true with getups.

From my understanding of the book (revision/version 2) you do NOT need to pass the timed test with a bell to start incorporating the next bell.

I'll let @Steve Freides judge whether/when we are sharing "too much" from the book. Out of respect for the book, specific questions might be best reserved for PM. Feel free to message me.

Hope that's been helpful.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much that cleared a lot. Today was my second day doing the program today was two swing at 16kg and the only challenging part is TGU but it’s doable. I actualy might do it 4-5 times a week instead of 3 just to see how I feel. Thanks again!
 
Great input from all. I've not finished reading the legit S&Sv2 I bought yesterday, but did read a bootleg copy of S&Sv1 in the past. *if* i'm not going into IP secrects: according to the program, can we progress TGU and Swings seperately? in my case, based on yesterday's practice session:
- I may achieve the 100swings in 5 minutes with 24kg within the next 4 weeks
- I may achieve the 10 TGU's in 10 minutes with 12kg within 6 weeks and expect to rapidly progress with 16kg and take forever with 24kg.
the determining factor is consistency of 2or3 sessions per week mixed with running of 2or3 per week. both have a Hard, Easy, Medium day per week.

The decisions to make within the next few week$:
- continue pushing with the 24kg swings while waiting for TGU's to catchup, or
- plan for the 32kg swings and 12kg TGU, or
- double KB (24+12 or 24+16) swings while waiting for TGU's to catchup. (I was comfortable with 12+16 swings and racks before I bought the 24kg)

thanks
 
Thanks for tagging me, @John K - I think it's fine.

John K said:
But that can be a "play it by ear" thing - if you're struggling, failing, or not seeing progress - slow down, take more time.
Click to expand...

When I train people, I often don't go "by the book" but vary according to what I see them able to do and not do, and what seems interesting to them. Generally speaking - and this is mentioned in the book, too - I introduce something new by using sets of 5, not 10. E.g., if I have a person doing 2h swings with a 24 kg, I'll add in some 2h swings with a 32 kg for sets of 5, or some 1h swings with a 16 for sets of 10 or 1h swings with a 20 for sets of 5. I find, rather than counting on them using the talk test, a set of 10 every 2:00 or a set of 5 every minute seems to be sufficient rest so that's often what I use. The recovery time is based on what you just did, not what you're about to do. And if that goes well, then I'll take out my pencil and write out the starting times for a new set every 1:50 ((or :55) instead of every 2:00.

For someone not working with a trainer, it's up to the trainee to either follow the guidance in the book or trust their own judgement, and for someone new to all this, I would definitely use the book as my guide and try to learn how to use the talk test for themselves or otherwise take very conservative approaches to timing.

-S-
 
Xcal said:
Great input from all. I've not finished reading the legit S&Sv2 I bought yesterday, but did read a bootleg copy of S&Sv1 in the past. *if* i'm not going into IP secrects: according to the program, can we progress TGU and Swings seperately? in my case, based on yesterday's practice session:
- I may achieve the 100swings in 5 minutes with 24kg within the next 4 weeks
- I may achieve the 10 TGU's in 10 minutes with 12kg within 6 weeks and expect to rapidly progress with 16kg and take forever with 24kg.
the determining factor is consistency of 2or3 sessions per week mixed with running of 2or3 per week. both have a Hard, Easy, Medium day per week.

The decisions to make within the next few week$:
- continue pushing with the 24kg swings while waiting for TGU's to catchup, or
- plan for the 32kg swings and 12kg TGU, or
- double KB (24+12 or 24+16) swings while waiting for TGU's to catchup. (I was comfortable with 12+16 swings and racks before I bought the 24kg)

thanks
Click to expand...
Yes, you can either progress they separately or together.
 
Ejnc214 said:
I won’t lie I’ve been doing S&S for the last two days and the swings at 35lbs go by fast and my rests aren’t that long. Of course the TGUs are the most challenging but doable. Maybe I’m just overthinking it cause I’ve swing 44lbs I believe as my heaviest at request of my trainer.
Click to expand...
This advice does not sound fun, but I would suggest focusing on getting your form correct and not worry about going up in weight in a hurry. On the other hand, if the weight is too light, you won't activate the proper muscles (like using your arms in a swing with too light a KB).
 
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