Jeffro
Level 6 Valued Member
Is there an official Strong First standard for shoulder rotation in either the starting position (bell parked) or fully hiked position for double bell and/or 1 handed movements? This would include double and 1-Hand cleans, swings, snatches etc. Both on first rep and later reps? And if there is a standard, is it a definite definite thing, or is it dependent on the individual somewhat?
Specifically, I recently acquired my first matching bell and was practicing some double cleans and presses. I notice in ROTKB, Pavel is very clear that the parked starting position should be with internal rotation. Meaning if looking down at the bells before a clean, they form a "V" pointing toward yourself. A) ROTKB predates strong first, right? Is there a updated standard B) That feels very strange to me C) The exact opposite advice can be found from other sources (V pointing away from you). D) There is no specific standard in ROTKB for shoulder rotation at the full hike position, but the photos show varying degrees of rotation, from moderate internal rotation, to basically neutral rotation. E)It is not clear if any of this necessarily applies to anything other than the first rep from parked, I assume it should, but I've been known to be an idiot sometimes.
Just going of initial feel for myself, starting in EXTERNAL rotation (V pointing away from me) feels better, I feel my lats engaging, my shoulders feel more packed, and everything feels more stable. I can start externally rotated, and hike to neutral or internal rotation with equal comfort. Maybe I have wierd shoulders? Maybe I'm just a bit weak to be doing doubles? Maybe I'm a shoulder injury just waiting to happen?
Similarly, I don't remember any specific guidelines on rotation in S&S, but many seem to be internally rotated (thumb back) in the full hike. A couple opinions online seem to complain that this rotation hurts, and advocate either neutral rotation or even full external rotation in the hike pass (thumb forward). I haven't really noticed my arm caring how it's rotated with 1 hand work, and I don't think I've done much other than a neutral start and whatever slight internal rotation happens naturally in the hike position.
Thoughts? What do other doubles guides have to say; KB Strong? Aggressive Strength?
Specifically, I recently acquired my first matching bell and was practicing some double cleans and presses. I notice in ROTKB, Pavel is very clear that the parked starting position should be with internal rotation. Meaning if looking down at the bells before a clean, they form a "V" pointing toward yourself. A) ROTKB predates strong first, right? Is there a updated standard B) That feels very strange to me C) The exact opposite advice can be found from other sources (V pointing away from you). D) There is no specific standard in ROTKB for shoulder rotation at the full hike position, but the photos show varying degrees of rotation, from moderate internal rotation, to basically neutral rotation. E)It is not clear if any of this necessarily applies to anything other than the first rep from parked, I assume it should, but I've been known to be an idiot sometimes.
Just going of initial feel for myself, starting in EXTERNAL rotation (V pointing away from me) feels better, I feel my lats engaging, my shoulders feel more packed, and everything feels more stable. I can start externally rotated, and hike to neutral or internal rotation with equal comfort. Maybe I have wierd shoulders? Maybe I'm just a bit weak to be doing doubles? Maybe I'm a shoulder injury just waiting to happen?
Similarly, I don't remember any specific guidelines on rotation in S&S, but many seem to be internally rotated (thumb back) in the full hike. A couple opinions online seem to complain that this rotation hurts, and advocate either neutral rotation or even full external rotation in the hike pass (thumb forward). I haven't really noticed my arm caring how it's rotated with 1 hand work, and I don't think I've done much other than a neutral start and whatever slight internal rotation happens naturally in the hike position.
Thoughts? What do other doubles guides have to say; KB Strong? Aggressive Strength?