Adam R Mundorf
Level 6 Valued Member
This is the vibe I get as well. It's a flexible program in terms of frequency but the programming/application is set in stone imo.
Simple & Sinister - General discussion
- Thread starter SUOMI-PUKU
- Start date
Francisco
Level 6 Valued Member
Yes. I found it very useful once weights get heavy (over 50% BW)
I find it allows me to build up some volume with a heavier weight in the most demanding phase (IMHO RtE) without too much metabolic impact.
I like doing partial doubles and triples, getting as much time under tension as a full TGU.
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
I concur… great thread idea.
I have been doing S&S for only 6 years or so. I still consider myself a beginner. I do it pretty much exactly as written, (i.e. Not substituting movements) with the exception of frequency per week. Typically 3 days a week for me; although early on I was doing it 5-6.
But… I don’t do it to achieve ‘Simple’ or any other arbitrary standards. I do it because it does an amazing job of filling in the gaps in all of my other lifestyle activities.
I will vary load depending upon recovery requirements from other activities, but generally these days…. Swings are done with 32 and TGU’s with 28
I have been doing S&S for only 6 years or so. I still consider myself a beginner. I do it pretty much exactly as written, (i.e. Not substituting movements) with the exception of frequency per week. Typically 3 days a week for me; although early on I was doing it 5-6.
But… I don’t do it to achieve ‘Simple’ or any other arbitrary standards. I do it because it does an amazing job of filling in the gaps in all of my other lifestyle activities.
I will vary load depending upon recovery requirements from other activities, but generally these days…. Swings are done with 32 and TGU’s with 28
Erik W
Level 6 Valued Member
SUOMI-PUKU
Level 6 Valued Member
Today is my first session (maybe workout ever) where I’m just repeating what I did last time - same movements, same reps, no looking at the clock.
It will be a test for me to not add anything more today, and hopefully not progressing in any of those things until the next “step” will help me progress long term.
As an aside I also had this problem with running, started from next-to-nothing, progressed my runs in speed or distance every single time and within a month got to a half marathon… then got injured and barely ran since.
This process with S&S will hopefully be a lesson I can take to other areas of my life, I’m sure there will be more places that also take on (and are hindered by) this must-improve-every-session attitude.
It will be a test for me to not add anything more today, and hopefully not progressing in any of those things until the next “step” will help me progress long term.
As an aside I also had this problem with running, started from next-to-nothing, progressed my runs in speed or distance every single time and within a month got to a half marathon… then got injured and barely ran since.
This process with S&S will hopefully be a lesson I can take to other areas of my life, I’m sure there will be more places that also take on (and are hindered by) this must-improve-every-session attitude.
Francisco
Level 6 Valued Member
This is the way…
Erik W
Level 6 Valued Member
You've reminded me that I most likely have a very important hour of TV to consume in the next day or so.
Adam R Mundorf
Level 6 Valued Member
"The prying goblet squat unlocks your hips plus the curls allow for some arm work. The StrongFirst hip bridge activates the glutes and stretches the hip flexors. The kettlebell halo unlocks your shoulders and works the whole shoulder girdle. The kettlebell swing works with your hinge pattern and your whole posterior chain. The turkish getup strengthens the shoulders and teaches your body how to move as one piece. The cool down stretches stretch your hips, back and sides. The hanging from a pull up bar decompresses your spine and improves shoulder health."
There's nothing really missing from S&S at all.
Adam R Mundorf
Level 6 Valued Member
@Harald Motz what has S&S taught you the most?
Harald Motz
Level 8 Valued Member
Pavel's two wheel 'right' exercise selection for driving foreward is a thing. Trusting the process, being consitent, learning training...I work the program, the program works me. Getting stronger and look the part.
TedM
Level 5 Valued Member
I have been on the S&S path for a year now. And my experience concurs with many other here: I tried to do it by the book (6 days a week, etc.) - then discovered weaknesses; recalibrated- made progress; etc.
With gratitude to @Harald Motz I've switched to an A&A swing approach of 5OTM for between 80 -120 a session, 3 times a week. (I was doing 6 but that wasn't sustainable. The other days are OS-type and light rucking).
A&A is a totally different feeling: quite amazing and refreshing.
I strained myself just with 1H32 and today switched to 2H32 (good enough for Bolton, good enough for me!)
Perhaps other programs would build more strength but I'm completely satisfied with my progress.
With gratitude to @Harald Motz I've switched to an A&A swing approach of 5OTM for between 80 -120 a session, 3 times a week. (I was doing 6 but that wasn't sustainable. The other days are OS-type and light rucking).
A&A is a totally different feeling: quite amazing and refreshing.
I strained myself just with 1H32 and today switched to 2H32 (good enough for Bolton, good enough for me!)
Perhaps other programs would build more strength but I'm completely satisfied with my progress.
Dan Cahill
Level 4 Valued Member
Great thread. I did S&S several years ago, but got side-tracked by work and other commitments before reaching simple. I started again a few months ago and quickly hit a wall. I'm 54 and have always been active, but this has been humbling.
I have no trouble progressing per the book with 2 hand swings and get ups. However, I struggle with 1-handed swings and developed a bit of soreness in my left shoulder / bicep. I have backed off the weight a bit and switched to waving swings in sets of 5, 3 days per week. This has made a big difference and I'll continue with this for a while.
I have no trouble progressing per the book with 2 hand swings and get ups. However, I struggle with 1-handed swings and developed a bit of soreness in my left shoulder / bicep. I have backed off the weight a bit and switched to waving swings in sets of 5, 3 days per week. This has made a big difference and I'll continue with this for a while.
Francisco
Level 6 Valued Member
There has recently been a three part series article in SF1 newsletter on developing grip. Have you subscribed? If not, PM me and I will forward you the three articles.
Mo04
Level 6 Valued Member
Thats an interesting approach. Is it 5OTM, then switch hands for next 5OTM?
How does this compare to the traditional 10 reps in the book?
Are you happy with progress? Have you seen progress in conditioning?
I'm considering adopting this approach.
Pavel.Kosenkov
Level 5 Valued Member
I think he means: just like traditional, but sets for 5. In my case it's 5x20 OTM, instead of 10x10 OTM. Switching hands every set.
My experience - it's way less challenging for the conditioning. I am never breathing hard with this tempo. However - it allows to pay way more attention to the quality of those 5 reps. For skill practicing and the lift itself I would say 5 reps are better.
Also - my limit is not my endurance, but my strength and my swing technique.
Check out Strongfirst for BJJ program. It has 2 sections. First one is S&S with sets of 5, the second is C&J protocol.
Harald Motz
Level 8 Valued Member
...it goes back to Al Ciampa's initial A+A (swing) protocols. The plans were simple as it gets:
- one bell
- 5 one arm swings on the minute
- switching hands after each repeat
- train 2 - 4 times a week
- session to session and week to week volume were organized according to PlanStrong delta 20 principle
- for swing weight, go as heavy as you can to swing the weight as explosively as possible fir around 15reps +- 5
- do the 5 swings as explosive as possible
- between repeats actively rest by walking around and/or shaking your limbs while breathing deeply in and out
- use chalk, and take care of your hands
With these infos anyone can design his/her own plan:
for example a plan based around 30 otm:
week 1: 24otm - 36otm - 30otm
week 2: 20 - 40
week 3: 30 - 20 - 16 - 36
week 4: 44 - 22
week 5: 30 - 36 - 24
week 6: 18 - 50
take a de-load, do a test week, evaluate (to introduce a heavier bell for instance). Start a next cycle. You could also do 4 week cycles.
There is no real magic on a plan per se. The magic comes by accumulation of a lot of high quality repeats over weeks, months, years...
these were my measured results back then:
from the 'bewellandstrong' website.
...you might use a heavier bell, the 5 reps stay more towards t alactic realm, you can do more overall volume per session...you can work uo to 60 min otm which goes towards building StrongEndurance. It's not better than S&S as S&S is its own tight synergistic package of the 10 x10 swing followed by the 10 total get ups.
Dan Cahill
Level 4 Valued Member
Thank you for the offer. I do get the newsletter and have been trying the techniques suggested. It doesn’t seem to be a grip strength issue and only affects my left side. I suspect it has more to do with shoulder stability or how I’m packing my shoulder.
The nearest SFG is 2 hours away. I’ve emailed them and waiting to hear back. I’ll post their observations if it seems it may help others.
I am doing S&S. 20kg SA swings and 20kg get ups, I have just completed a 4 week training block, 5 days S and S with 12kg snatches on either a Saturday or Sunday. I have had hip issues, which I think squatting and golf practice aggravated.
This weeks training has been comfortable and it would have been my intention to add in sets with the 24kg bell however I am travelling next week to welcome the arrival of my first Grandchild. I have access to 12 and 16kg bells, time will be limited and I am not sure what to do.
This weeks training has been comfortable and it would have been my intention to add in sets with the 24kg bell however I am travelling next week to welcome the arrival of my first Grandchild. I have access to 12 and 16kg bells, time will be limited and I am not sure what to do.
SUOMI-PUKU
Level 6 Valued Member
From my research I have read not much until after starting to use the 32 - but would also be interested in others experiences here, as in the book: the reasoning for going sets of 10 on the swings rather than 5 is partly for more hypertrophy.
Personally I’m not in it for the hypertrophy, but as a side effect I wouldn’t mind.