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Simple & Sinister - General discussion

Mo04 said:
Are you happy with progress? Have you seen progress in conditioning?
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I've only been doing it for a few weeks, but I love the energy I have after. I used to get worn out from 10×10. Now, time permitting I can do more volume than before and still feel good afterwards.

For conditioning: I'm trying not to get into a recovery debt, and this keeps me fresher so far.
I had to switch to 2H32kg. I am not strong enough yet for just the 1H. Could be my form though
 
M/46/210lbs

I started S&S (untimed, 3x/week) at the beginning of the year (after getting V2.0 book for Christmas) to run alongside my half marathon plan. Started off with all sets at 24kg and adding 2 presses at the top of each TGU. However, when I progressed to 2/6/2 of 24/32/24kg, the 32kg presses got pretty tough, so I removed them altogether. Just this week I progressed to all sets at 32kg. Rather than use the talk test, I allow my heart rate to get back down to 120bpm, then I start my next set. Amazingly, through the progression to all 32kg, my total time has stayed consistently in the 23 to 27 min range. After a few weeks at all 32kg, I'll probably run one final timed Simple test in mid-April a week ahead of my half marathon, then switch over to Q&D 044 plus other things as I move on to prep for the Murph WOD on Memorial Day.
 
I'm restarting SS after a bout of AA snatching. Previously hit timed simple, but I started at 24kg and currently step loading 32kg every week until all sets are performed with the 32kg. Then it's regular SS step loading to 40kg.

Going to try a frequency change this time though. I work a physical job and doing 300+ ballistics can be fairly taxing on my body. Schedule looks like: SS day, Zone 2 cardio and/or yoga for active recovery, off day. It repeats every 3 days regardless of days of the week. Been working well so far, but the weight is relatively light for me.
 
I returned to S S in mid January. I generally re-read SS and HS/NW every year and find something new with every reading. In 2022 I finished up the year with double jerks and had used doubles for most of the year.
My new year goal has been to compete in bjj so I’ve moved to 3 bjj sessions a week and moved back to SS 2.0. I was 230lbs Xmas and aim to compete at 217. Im down to 222 using SS alongside a macro tracker.
I’m currently using 32kg and have begun to work the 40kg as part of the step loading that’s laid out.
I’m following the program to a tee as I can only complete it 2/3 a week.
I’m going to run SS until my comp in June. I have run QD before but never to support BJJ. I’ll try this in the autumn.
On balance however I’d say SS is my favourite SF/Pavel program. For grappling and coping with the demands of a busy family life/ job I’ve never found anything that’s better..
 
Anders said:
Has anyone noticed any hypertrophy effect from doing S&S ?
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I did not, but I was using it as the base of my practice while losing fat so it was not expected. S&S plus Naked Warrior and 30-60 minutes of walking helped me get from 208 to around 173 in 6 months, then 10,000 swing challenge got me down to 165 a month later. No hypertrophy when slimming down that much.
 
I've been doing it a little over a year. I was working in the 32KG in both swings and TGU's last summer, but I dialed it back. I'm consistently using the 24KG almost completely. And can do all ten sets of swings one-handed with it in about 10 minutes if I push it. But I don't try to. Just try to make consistent, steady progress.

I also believe very few can every really "own" a weight. I'm close with the 16KG, but I won't consider it "owned" until I can also meet the time requirements any time I feel like it AND do a bottoms up TGU. I'm really close though. I also LOVE doing reverse TGU's, but I've dialed those back too.

I'm trying to find a way to consistently work in more days. But it will take time. I don't care though. It feels good to just do this program. It's just a good all-around base. Once I reach my 32KG goal then I will likely just "rest" in the program and do it three days a week. Then another zero to two days when I feel like it work on bodyweight, or Iron Cardio, or Q&D, maybe? I'm curious to see what happens five years from now just sticking with the program and leave it at that.



Mo04 said:
...For me, the challenge of 1H swings has always been hand grip. I'm glad S&S 2.0 advises to split a 10 rep set into 5+5 or 7+3 if grip is an issue. This has helped me quite a bit...
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I was "playing" around for a couple sets earlier this week. I found I can split a set of one-hand swings with the 32KG by doing a set 3R/4L/3R, then the next set reverse and 3L/4R/3L.

That seems to be a little less harsh on my CNS and recovery, I've found. I'm dealing with a hip/SI joint issue though, so taking it easy before I get too crazy w/ the 1H swings or 32KG. I think that might work for some who are trying to get to a 5+5, 6+4 or 7+3 split before doing a full 10 swing set.
 
Another session in the bag. Feels really solid but will be happy to take the next month after this to stick with the 16 and add the 1HS in and slow down the get ups (particularly the getting down section!).

BW hangs are feeling good to counter a lot of my sitting (question for people, do you do these as dead hangs or keeping the shoulders in the sockets like Pavel says in the RoP instruction?).

Hoping to get to a point where I can sit in the straddle and do the QL stretch but still just breaking this up into 3 separate stretches: hamstring stretch, straddle sit, then a QL stretch.

90/90 I can do well I think, the “top” of the hip on the “back” leg often feels a bit of discomfort when sitting upright but I’m hoping that’s a good thing that will go over time too.
 
How do people approach the timed tests? For example can do 40kg easily timeless, but 32 kg is still a struggle timed.
Do people train cardio separately? Currently doing only S&S without additional training.
 
Christophe said:
How do people approach the timed tests? For example can do 40kg easily timeless, but 32 kg is still a struggle timed.
Do people train cardio separately? Currently doing only S&S without additional training.
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The simplest approach would be to use at least one day per week with the goal of gradually reducing the time between sets with the 32, e.g., if you can do timeless 32 kg OTM (on the minute), then try doing it on the :55 sometime and see if you can get used to that. You could even go so far as to do only the last set or two on the :55 and then build that up gradually.

I'd also take S&S's advice and "flip the crazy switch" once every couple of weeks or so, meaning push your timed 32 kg as hard as you can.

-S-
 
Guys, who does what for the goblet squat?
Do you do them?
How heavy, how much?
The recommendation is: 3-5x3-5 with the weight we are swinging, and treat it as a stretch.
Does anyone go heavier? If so - why?
 
Pavel.Kosenkov said:
Guys, who does what for the goblet squat?
Do you do them?
How heavy, how much?
The recommendation is: 3-5x3-5 with the weight we are swinging, and treat it as a stretch.
Does anyone go heavier? If so - why?
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The goblet squat is a huge part of the program. I do the S&S warm-up and cool-down with every program I run. (Not just S&S.) It is a perfect way to prepare your body for the session. Then after the session, to stretch out and finish the session.

I always use a bell that is one down from the one I am running for the S&S session. And for the halos, two down from the one I am using for the S&S session.
 
Christophe said:
How do people approach the timed tests? For example can do 40kg easily timeless, but 32 kg is still a struggle timed.
Do people train cardio separately? Currently doing only S&S without additional training.
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Like Steve Freides said, sometimes you just have to flip the crazy switch. I had to set the stopwatch and just push through the discomfort to achieve Timed Simple. Once I did it once. It became easier each time I attempted the Timed Simple standard thereafter.
 
I do 3x5, first set with 16kg prying, then the next two without prying using whatever weight I'm about to swing.
 
Steve Freides said:
The simplest approach would be to use at least one day per week with the goal of gradually reducing the time between sets with the 32, e.g., if you can do timeless 32 kg OTM (on the minute), then try doing it on the :55 sometime and see if you can get used to that. You could even go so far as to do only the last set or two on the :55 and then build that up gradually.

I'd also take S&S's advice and "flip the crazy switch" once every couple of weeks or so, meaning push your timed 32 kg as hard as you can.

-S-
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Yeah maybe I should do it a bit more structured that way. I managed 1 set every 35s, which was doable but with 30s I fail to maintain the standard after 8 sets. Maybe I should try owning 35s a bit better and then move down. I try to go all out every 2 weeks and push the other timed sessions but not all-out.
I think my sets are around 19 on 11 off when I do it every 30s (I’m very tall, not sure if this is slow or not).

Pavel.Kosenkov said:
Guys, who does what for the goblet squat?
Do you do them?
How heavy, how much?
The recommendation is: 3-5x3-5 with the weight we are swinging, and treat it as a stretch.
Does anyone go heavier? If so - why?
Click to expand...

I just do 1 set with 16 kg prying and 2 sets of 5 with 40 kg which is my main swing weight.
 
Christophe said:
Yeah maybe I should do it a bit more structured that way. I managed 1 set every 35s, which was doable but with 30s I fail to maintain the standard after 8 sets. Maybe I should try owning 35s a bit better and then move down. I try to go all out every 2 weeks and push the other timed sessions but not all-out.
I think my sets are around 19 on 11 off when I do it every 30s (I’m very tall, not sure if this is slow or not).
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Have another look at S&S where it talks about being a step cycle. Try to pick an achievable short-term performance goal, and better to do this at the level of normal training not an attempt at Timed. E.g., let's say you can comfortably do a new set every 1:00 but every :55 feels a bit like you're pushing yourself. Stay with :55 for a while until it becomes easier, like 1:00 used to feel. Then move to :50 and do that until it feels like :55 used to feel. And so on.

There are other ways to progress gradually with this, too, e.g., if you could only do :30 for 8 sets, then perhaps once every two weeks, keep the :30 interval but do 4 sets of 10, 2 sets of 8, 2 sets of 6, and 2 sets of 4. Then, every two weeks, see if you can progress the volume, e.g., the next time try 5 or 6 sets of 10, and so on.

Last but not least, have a look at the progressions you'll find in the articles here on strongfirst.com that address preparing for the SFG-I and specifically preparing for the 5-minute snatch test. You'll find a lot of good ideas you could apply to your own training.

-S-
 
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