Simple & Sinister - General discussion

[Chimp]

I don’t have the mobility for doubles overhead right now.

And even if I did, I’d rather just have all sets and reps programmed for me right now. I couldn’t be trusted last time around to not push it and wound up injured.

I’ll definitely be back on The Giant in the future, once I’ve built a base, some mobility and learnt more about my recovery abilities. Maybe single bell maybe double bells.

My first time running the Giant I learnt the hard way that “auto regulation” as Geoff refers to it can still lead to injuries if you aren’t used to the movements. It’s better to take a conservative approach. Since then I have run multiple versions of the Giant with great success. You would want to get on to doubles as soon as you can and focus on your overhead and deep squat mobility in the meantime.

 

[SUOMI-PUKU]

My first time running the Giant I learnt the hard way that “auto regulation” as Geoff refers to it can still lead to injuries if you aren’t used to the movements. It’s better to take a conservative approach. Since then I have run multiple versions of the Giant with great success. You would want to get on to doubles as soon as you can and focus on your overhead and deep squat mobility in the meantime.

I feel like my TGU, Goblet squats, shoulder dislocates, pumps, hanging and Brettzels I’m doing a 2-3 times a week each should hopefully help.

I’ll likely go for a single bell C+P (potentially RoP or Giant 3.0) before I go back to doubles, no rush to go back to doubles for me even though from what I’ve heard they get results a bit faster.

S&S selling point to me right now is not having to think and just having my next 6 months laid out in front of me. Very boring looking schedule, but my life has enough stress in it right now, so I could use the extra mental RAM I would have wasted thinking about programming!

 

[SUOMI-PUKU]

Another session in, very timeless as I had meetings and emails after some of the swings and the get ups were just done every few mins on the afternoon rather than at once.

Found this was quite a good way to focus fully on form and quality reps, however I definitely didn’t get the cardio I’d get from limiting myself to talk test rests.

This is my last session repeating the 16. I’m now going to start incorporating the 1HS in some form, will likely just do some doubles/triples with it in the first session and go from there unless it immediately feels good to go for 10s. Unless anyone has suggestions?

I’ve read the article from @Steve Freides which is food for thought definitely, alternating the 1HS and 2HS in one ‘set’ so the 1HS learns from the good form of the 2HS.

 

[Pete L]

How do people approach the timed tests?

I worked once a week based on timed target requirements and did a step cycle transitioning from 100% 24 kg to 100% 32 kg over 16 weeks.
The rest of the time was timeless with the 32 kg (I didn't have a heavier bell).
The only cardio was life, dog walking and kickboxing training.

 

[djm]

I worked once a week based on timed target requirements and did a step cycle transitioning from 100% 24 kg to 100% 32 kg over 16 weeks.
The rest of the time was timeless with the 32 kg (I didn't have a heavier bell).
The only cardio was life, dog walking and kickboxing training.

Pretty much the same. Tried for timed simple one day and got it. I won't say it was easy though. I remember being pretty gassed.

 

[SUOMI-PUKU]

Using the article from Steve Freides about incorporating 1HS into my training I will be doing something like the below over my first 8 sessions in April, thoughts welcomed:

• 2 sets: 2HS , 4 sets: 2T + 3R + 2T + 3L, 4 sets: 2HS.
• 2 sets: 2HS , 6 sets: 2T + 3R + 2T + 3L, 2 sets: 2HS.
• 2 sets: 2HS, 8 sets: 2T + 3R + 2T + 3L
• 2 sets: 2HS, 8 sets: 3T + 4L + 4R
• 2 sets: 2HS, 8 sets: 4T + 6L/R
• 2 sets: 2HS, 8 sets: 2T + 8L/R
• 2 sets: 2HS, 8 sets: 10L/R
• 10 sets: 10L/R

 

[Cyrus-II]

I've been struggling trying to do more than three sessions per week.

What seems to work best due to work schedule and recovery problems is sticking to a Tues 1H / Thu 2H / Sat 1H swing cycle. I tried an 'every other day' routine. Week 1; Tues/Thu/Sat, and week 2; Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun, but it puked on the 2nd week when my Mon work week I was just slammed.

After yesterday's session I felt pretty spunky when I got up this morning.

I think on this Wed and Fri I'm going to try "half" days. Not necessarily true half though. Just three to five sets of 3 rep heavy prying goblet squats w/ the 32KG, light halos and bridges for warmup. One set 2H swings with the 32KG, two sets 1H swings with the 32KG. Then one or two sets of TGU's on each arm.

Swings are in the bank. No big deal and my attitude right now is very "honey badger don't care".
Later today I'll probably start with a set of 24KG TGU's on each arm and then a set of 32's. I'm thinking by upping frequency w/ a heavier weight, but keeping volume down during off days so it won't fry my CNS, which I suspect is where my main recovery issues are happening.

Since Thu is a "light" day of only 2H swings I'll have a rest from 1H swings, which always seem to be my weak link. It still means I would get in an extra 1920KG's of swings and an extra 64-112KG of TGU's. And then perhaps I can increase total sets on Wed and Fri's over the course of a couple months...or not.

What think ye?

 

[Pete L]

I've been struggling trying to do more than three sessions per week.

What seems to work best due to work schedule and recovery problems is sticking to a Tues 1H / Thu 2H / Sat 1H swing cycle. I tried an 'every other day' routine. Week 1; Tues/Thu/Sat, and week 2; Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun, but it puked on the 2nd week when my Mon work week I was just slammed.

After yesterday's session I felt pretty spunky when I got up this morning.

I think on this Wed and Fri I'm going to try "half" days. Not necessarily true half though. Just three to five sets of 3 rep heavy prying goblet squats w/ the 32KG, light halos and bridges for warmup. One set 2H swings with the 32KG, two sets 1H swings with the 32KG. Then one or two sets of TGU's on each arm.

Swings are in the bank. No big deal and my attitude right now is very "honey badger don't care".
Later today I'll probably start with a set of 24KG TGU's on each arm and then a set of 32's. I'm thinking by upping frequency w/ a heavier weight, but keeping volume down during off days so it won't fry my CNS, which I suspect is where my main recovery issues are happening.

Since Thu is a "light" day of only 2H swings I'll have a rest from 1H swings, which always seem to be my weak link. It still means I would get in an extra 1920KG's of swings and an extra 64-112KG of TGU's. And then perhaps I can increase total sets on Wed and Fri's over the course of a couple months...or not.

What think ye?

I alternated weeks of 3 and 4 days both when I did Timed Simple and progressed Timeless with the 36 kg.
The second week of the cycle was always two sessions of 1H and two sessions of 2H. So 3x 2H out of seven sessions across two weeks.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

I've been struggling trying to do more than three sessions per week.

What seems to work best due to work schedule and recovery problems is sticking to a Tues 1H / Thu 2H / Sat 1H swing cycle. I tried an 'every other day' routine. Week 1; Tues/Thu/Sat, and week 2; Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun, but it puked on the 2nd week when my Mon work week I was just slammed.

After yesterday's session I felt pretty spunky when I got up this morning.

I think on this Wed and Fri I'm going to try "half" days. Not necessarily true half though. Just three to five sets of 3 rep heavy prying goblet squats w/ the 32KG, light halos and bridges for warmup. One set 2H swings with the 32KG, two sets 1H swings with the 32KG. Then one or two sets of TGU's on each arm.

Swings are in the bank. No big deal and my attitude right now is very "honey badger don't care".
Later today I'll probably start with a set of 24KG TGU's on each arm and then a set of 32's. I'm thinking by upping frequency w/ a heavier weight, but keeping volume down during off days so it won't fry my CNS, which I suspect is where my main recovery issues are happening.

Since Thu is a "light" day of only 2H swings I'll have a rest from 1H swings, which always seem to be my weak link. It still means I would get in an extra 1920KG's of swings and an extra 64-112KG of TGU's. And then perhaps I can increase total sets on Wed and Fri's over the course of a couple months...or not.

What think ye?

Are you currently in a caloric deficit? When I was last doing S&S I was aiming to burn fat so was in a long term caloric deficit and really felt limited to about 3 (and sometimes 4) sessions a week, plus walking a lot and I added Naked Warrior throughout the day as those didn't seem movements done in a GTG way didn't seem to affect my recovery.

If you're not dieting down, maybe try adding in some more food and as much sleep as you can get and see if that helps.

 

[Cyrus-II]

Are you currently in a caloric deficit? When I was last doing S&S I was aiming to burn fat so was in a long term caloric deficit and really felt limited to about 3 (and sometimes 4) sessions a week, plus walking a lot and I added Naked Warrior throughout the day as those didn't seem movements done in a GTG way didn't seem to affect my recovery.

If you're not dieting down, maybe try adding in some more food and as much sleep as you can get and see if that helps.

I don't think I'm in a caloric deficit. At least based off of last time I looked at the scale I put on about .5-1kg. I don't pay much attention though, other than try to eat okay'ish with a heavier emphasis on meat and green veggies with a little pasta and potato thrown in. Probably three Sunday's out of the month I skip eating from Sat night until Sun night. I found that kind of gives my body a "reset" and any junk foods I ate the previous week sort of just get cleared out.

Sleep is another matter. I still consistently get about 7hrs a night, sometimes more, infrequently less (usually a work "emergency" or sick kids).
I wake up whenever my body feels like it (usually around 5:00-5:30, no alarm clock) and typically have some work to do early morning. Oftentimes I also have evening and weekend server maintenance to do too, so it can be somewhat stressful and can mess up my routine. So is the life of a netadmin/sysadmin. But most nights I'm in bed and asleep between 9:30-10:15pm.

 

[djm]

I've been struggling trying to do more than three sessions per week.

What seems to work best due to work schedule and recovery problems is sticking to a Tues 1H / Thu 2H / Sat 1H swing cycle. I tried an 'every other day' routine. Week 1; Tues/Thu/Sat, and week 2; Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun, but it puked on the 2nd week when my Mon work week I was just slammed.

After yesterday's session I felt pretty spunky when I got up this morning.

I think on this Wed and Fri I'm going to try "half" days. Not necessarily true half though. Just three to five sets of 3 rep heavy prying goblet squats w/ the 32KG, light halos and bridges for warmup. One set 2H swings with the 32KG, two sets 1H swings with the 32KG. Then one or two sets of TGU's on each arm.

Swings are in the bank. No big deal and my attitude right now is very "honey badger don't care".
Later today I'll probably start with a set of 24KG TGU's on each arm and then a set of 32's. I'm thinking by upping frequency w/ a heavier weight, but keeping volume down during off days so it won't fry my CNS, which I suspect is where my main recovery issues are happening.

Since Thu is a "light" day of only 2H swings I'll have a rest from 1H swings, which always seem to be my weak link. It still means I would get in an extra 1920KG's of swings and an extra 64-112KG of TGU's. And then perhaps I can increase total sets on Wed and Fri's over the course of a couple months...or not.

What think ye?

I don't think there's anything wrong with doing 3 days if your busy, especially if your having a hard time recovering. I tend to make better progress doing less than more when I'm under stress. That was a hard learned lesson.

 

[Pavel.Kosenkov]

Do any of you mix S&S with other protocols? How do you do that?
For example: let's say I do 2 times a week press ladders and squats.
Every other session I am doing S&S.

What would be the strategy? Keeping S&S at a comfortable level: timeless swings and solid getups, focusing on progressing my presses, - or actually trying to advance the S&S as well, by step loading my swings and get-ups?

For me, I would definitely see this S&S session as a skill practice session, where the exercises (swings and getups) are just being performed with an appropriate load. And I would focus on progressing my other sessions.

What would you do?

 

[djm]

Do any of you mix S&S with other protocols? How do you do that?
For example: let's say I do 2 times a week press ladders and squats.
Every other session I am doing S&S.

What would be the strategy? Keeping S&S at a comfortable level: timeless swings and solid getups, focusing on progressing my presses, - or actually trying to advance the S&S as well, by step loading my swings and get-ups?

For me, I would definitely see this S&S session as a skill practice session, where the exercises (swings and getups) are just being performed with an appropriate load. And I would focus on progressing my other sessions.

What would you do?

I like one program at a time. I only have so much time/energy to devote training. That's why I like SFs minimalist programs. Doing a few lifts, tracking a few variables, helps focus on what the program is trying to do.

Have you tried RoP? It has variety days built in so you could practice/maintain your tgu.

 

[Pete L]

Do any of you mix S&S with other protocols? How do you do that?
For example: let's say I do 2 times a week press ladders and squats.
Every other session I am doing S&S.

What would be the strategy? Keeping S&S at a comfortable level: timeless swings and solid getups, focusing on progressing my presses, - or actually trying to advance the S&S as well, by step loading my swings and get-ups?

For me, I would definitely see this S&S session as a skill practice session, where the exercises (swings and getups) are just being performed with an appropriate load. And I would focus on progressing my other sessions.

What would you do?

I'd say that if you are practicing in a timeless manner you ARE progressing.
If you have a heavier bell then you progress in a step load as well.
But neither the load nor the volume needs to change for progress in S&S.

 

[SUOMI-PUKU]

I like one program at a time. I only have so much time/energy to devote training. That's why I like SFs minimalist programs. Doing a few lifts, tracking a few variables, helps focus on what the program is trying to do.

Have you tried RoP? It has variety days built in so you could practice/maintain your tgu.

This is one of the reasons I want to move to RoP next. Looks like I can keep up the swings and get ups, while adding on a whole new focus without compromising.

Three more options I have considered, if I magically find more structured training time:

• S&S Tue/Fri, new program Mon/Thu. Still progressing in S&S, maybe more slowly since you’ll be fatigued on day after main focus program.
• S&S Wed, new program Mon/Fri. Again slower progression in S&S due to only doing once a week.
• Keep S&S really easy and comfortable (a bell you’ve owned, or lower) and do it as off-days from your current program. Don’t progress and just use it as active recovery/skill practice, still having at least one proper day of rest too.

 

[Cyrus-II]

Do any of you mix S&S with other protocols? How do you do that?
For example: let's say I do 2 times a week press ladders and squats.
Every other session I am doing S&S.

What would be the strategy? Keeping S&S at a comfortable level: timeless swings and solid getups, focusing on progressing my presses, - or actually trying to advance the S&S as well, by step loading my swings and get-ups?

For me, I would definitely see this S&S session as a skill practice session, where the exercises (swings and getups) are just being performed with an appropriate load. And I would focus on progressing my other sessions.

What would you do?

I tried, but it didn't last long. It was too much. I do sometimes work on bodyweight exercises though in a GTG fashion. OAP, pullups, pistols and unweighted cossack squats. I've also recently adding bridging to the mix. But again, not much.

I will eventually try again, but not until I'm doing 100% 32KG 1H swings and TGU's. I intend to plateau at that point for awhile. Like maybe a year or more before adding any more weight to S&S. Then I will pivot to adding something else. Likely Easy Reg Park, or Iron Cardio.

 

[SUOMI-PUKU]

First 1HS session today. I scrapped the plan up above completely after trying it, didn’t like the stopping mid-set at all (maybe I’m just not used to it).

Preferred just to try a few sets with one hand instead, by the later reps in the set I felt more in a groove if that makes sense which I think will be better for learning.

It didn’t feel easy, but hoping by the end of the month it will be up to a decent standard!

Get ups went very well, didn’t find I needed much rest at all between sides this time round. Still keeping them at 16 though as there’s enough challenge there and I wouldn’t mind getting through the talk time rests quicker still before progressing.

 

[Jim Hooper]

I think S&S is one of the most useful tools I've ever found for the training toolbox. It is great to run by itself, by the book, for several months, where getting better at the program is the goal. Or for years to become a superhero like Pavel M did. It is equally wonderful as a practical, go to GPP/ST supplement for people training primarily for some other event or sport. It has easily become the number one thing I recommend (along with walking or some other basic cardio) to adults trying to "get in shape" as well as other athletes in my sports (climbing and cycling) who want a 2-3 days per week, time efficient strength training and mobility add-on to their primary training.

 

[JRockne]

Really love S&S. I’m about 8 months in. Really working the movements. Will start increasing weight over next few months. Absolutely the best exercise protocol I’ve ever done. Maybe the best shape of my 57 year old life.

 

[SUOMI-PUKU]

I’m due to be a dad to our second child by the end of the year and I like the idea of progressing from my 16kg to 24kg timeless by then so I have a brainless go-to workout that I should be able to do with one bell (24 timeless) to keep myself in shape. Timed would be great to throw in now and again too.

I actually bought my first kettlebell one month after our first was born, when I finally lost all hope of finding time to get back to the gym!

I do wish I had just started S&S then and stayed consistent, but never mind, in a years time I will be glad that I’ve done it this time around!