So I've Started Deadlifting

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Glen

Level 6 Valued Member
Interesting topic about strong enough.

When it comes to sport I always think about worse case scenario - i.e if 1.5 x BW is your max how well does that allow you to produce the required force once fatigue sets in.

If the task is to move something with enough force for say 1.2 bodyweight then the 2x BW deadlifter will find it easier under fatigued conditions than a 1.5 x BW deadlifter.

IMO being stronger gives you a bigger reserve to fall back on and I would think getting as strong as possible before the strength training effort impacts your sports training is the way to go. For most this seems around a 2x BW deadlift. Much more requires too much focus on the deadlift to the detriment of sports training
 

Kettlebelephant

Level 6 Valued Member
IMO being stronger gives you a bigger reserve to fall back on and I would think getting as strong as possible before the strength training effort impacts your sports training is the way to go. For most this seems around a 2x BW deadlift. Much more requires too much focus on the deadlift to the detriment of sports training
That's where I would draw the line for "strong enough".
"Strong enough" is what you are able to achieve with relatively minimal time investment without affecting whatever you do (e.g. sport or profession) in a negative way.
That means once I have to dedicate more time to increase strength and/or increasing strength comes with the cost of not being adequately recovered for my sport, profession or everyday life then that's my "strong enough".
For some that will be a 300lbs deadlift, for some a 500lbs DL and for some rare others even a 600lbs DL.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
For the barbell SF requirements, it says 5 reps at 1.5 bodyweight for "technique" and 2X boyweights 1 rep for strength. Does this mean that being able to do 5 reps at 1.5 bodyweight is not making me strong enough? I sort of don't understand it.
@Kozushi, we have two tests for the same lift or movement in a number of places, e.g., the first one that comes to my mind is the kettlebell snatch for our SFG - I certification. The deadlift as you're discussing it is similar - a 5-rep technique test and a 1-rep strength test.

The 5-rep technique test is where you are required not only to complete the specified number of lifts at the specified weight, you are required to do it with very good form, and the people evaluating you compare your performance to a set of standards. The single lift is the strength test, and for that, you must complete the lift safely but the details of your form aren't what's evaluated - simply completing a legal version of the lift is. In the case of a deadlift, that would be a PL-legal deadlift. In the case of the kettlebell snatch, while I don't have the words in front of me, I believe it's something along the lines of "bring the bell to the lockout position in a single motion and pause at the top.

I agree with @jef that you are doing well, making steady progress - keep up the good work.

-S-
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
To add to what Steve said, another difference between the strength tests and technique tests (for SFG II and for SFL) is that the strength tests are done on Day 1 - you are fresh and rested, so you either have the required strength to pass, or you don't. The technique tests are the final thing on the last day (applies to SFG I also) and show the ability to apply what you've learned in the weekend. They are at lesser weight but still a challenging weight. Some are not strong enough to pass them with good form, or don't hit all the points of form, especially after a taxing weekend. For either type test if you don't pass it just means you don't get your instructor certificate that weekend. You just get the attendance certificate. To complete the requirements for the instructor certification you send a video within the given timeframe to be reviewed and accepted by the team leader, then they mail you the instructor certificate. The standards are tough! Preparation and training is required, even for the strong!
 

Sean M

Level 6 Valued Member
That's where I would draw the line for "strong enough".
"Strong enough" is what you are able to achieve with relatively minimal time investment without affecting whatever you do (e.g. sport or profession) in a negative way.
That means once I have to dedicate more time to increase strength and/or increasing strength comes with the cost of not being adequately recovered for my sport, profession or everyday life then that's my "strong enough".
For some that will be a 300lbs deadlift, for some a 500lbs DL and for some rare others even a 600lbs DL.
Well said, that’s my thought too. “Generally stronger than average” with minimum effective dose is fine with me. The cost of specialization, and genetic limitation (skinny guy frame), are not worth the investment of my time and energy.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I try to hold the barbell in the "up" position for as long as possible before setting it down on the ground again. I assume this is good for my body frame's structural integrity and endurance, and very helpful for my grip.

Already at just 300lbs deadlifting, my judo is in a whole other category.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I did my 2 sets of 5 with 330lbs today. It's good I tried that, since I found that it's a bit past the right weight for me right now, which is 300lbs. I noticed with the 330lbs that I felt kind of sore in several places, and that I had to switch over to the over-under grips after a few reps.

I did 3 reps of pressing each hand with the 32kg kettlebell today.
 

Waffles03

Level 3 Valued Member
I try to hold the barbell in the "up" position for as long as possible before setting it down on the ground again. I assume this is good for my body frame's structural integrity and endurance, and very helpful for my grip.
Have you thought about buying fat gripz for improving your grip strength for judo?

I have thought about buying them to use on a pull up bar.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
I did my 2 sets of 5 with 330lbs today. It's good I tried that, since I found that it's a bit past the right weight for me right now, which is 300lbs. I noticed with the 330lbs that I felt kind of sore in several places, and that I had to switch over to the over-under grips after a few reps.
There is nothing wrong with needing to switch to over/under grip. Indeed, some people use straps so that they can work all the other things the DL works without being limited by their grip.

I do, however, see your point - you are interested in keeping your DL at a certain level of effort and having that improve over time. This is a solid approach, IMHO, so long as it continues to work for you. The other side of this is that those deadlifts that you found difficult, if you do them enough, will also become easier and you'll become stronger in the process.

-S-
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
It`s sort of the same conundrum as with S&S - if it takes me longer to recover between sets and reps, I`m losing out in the muscular (and cardio) endurance department, meaning that slightly lighter weight can be more useful as part of my sport training. For instance with S&S, I know I can do the routine well with the 40kg, but it still takes me about 45 minutes to finish it, but with the 32kg, only 30 minutes or even less at times. I definitely know I`m getting a better cardio workout with the 32 (and this extends to the TGUs which are done after the swings - they continue the cardio exercise started with the swings.)
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
I know I can do the routine well with the 40kg, but it still takes me about 45 minutes to finish it, but with the 32kg, only 30 minutes or even less at times. I definitely know I`m getting a better cardio workout with the 32 (and this extends to the TGUs which are done after the swings - they continue the cardio exercise started with the swings.)
I don’t know that this is a valid assumption. I would assume your HR to be higher after each effort with the heavier weight, and that takes longer to recover from, but the cardio training effect could be better, worse, or no different. I think we’d have to monitor both with a HRM and then discuss how each would fit into your training plan. It’s conceivable that one day per week with the heavier weight is a good option. There are many possibilities.

-S-
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I don’t know that this is a valid assumption. I would assume your HR to be higher after each effort with the heavier weight, and that takes longer to recover from, but the cardio training effect could be better, worse, or no different. I think we’d have to monitor both with a HRM and then discuss how each would fit into your training plan. It’s conceivable that one day per week with the heavier weight is a good option. There are many possibilities.

-S-
Ah, I assumed that taking longer rests was somehow detracting from the cardio benefits, but maybe not, since indeed I'm working harder with the heavier weight. Hahaha, maybe the only benefit to using the 32 over the 40 is saving 15 minutes of time.
 
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