watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Sounds like plyo training I've done!
But whatever you want to call it, it's definitely not isometric.
Other/Mixed The ‘Chopping Board Workout’ // ‘Simple Isometric Strength’ // only isometrics
- Thread starter onlyisometrics
- Start date
Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
Sounds like plyo training I've done!
But whatever you want to call it, it's definitely not isometric.
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
I'd say unless the intention is to brake to a dead stop as rapidly as possible, it is a form of plyo. Semantics perhaps.
onlyisometrics
Level 2 Valued Member
I switched from 3x20 secs to 5x10 secs - to try to focus more on strength.
Done about 5 or 6 sessions.
So far noticed...
Heart rate doesn't get as elevated as with 20 second holds.
Can def keep a higher power output for duration (or feels like it) - maybe obvious as longer holds the power is going to drop off.
I thought it wouldn't give me that 'iron man' posture feeling I get from longer holds but seems to.
The yielding isometrics - ab wheel, hangs, carries (if you want to think of them like that) - are the same 3x45 secs.
I'm also thinking of introducing a isometric chopping board bench - basically strap under board, lie on board, push upwards.
I've neglected chest stuff over overhead press for a long time so might be nice to mix it in.
Done about 5 or 6 sessions.
So far noticed...
Heart rate doesn't get as elevated as with 20 second holds.
Can def keep a higher power output for duration (or feels like it) - maybe obvious as longer holds the power is going to drop off.
I thought it wouldn't give me that 'iron man' posture feeling I get from longer holds but seems to.
The yielding isometrics - ab wheel, hangs, carries (if you want to think of them like that) - are the same 3x45 secs.
I'm also thinking of introducing a isometric chopping board bench - basically strap under board, lie on board, push upwards.
I've neglected chest stuff over overhead press for a long time so might be nice to mix it in.
onlyisometrics
Level 2 Valued Member
I've also just ordered a 20kg kettlebell to play around with so I could do some relative strength / rep tests if anyone's interested to see if isometrics is keeping / making me strong... or I'm just a dweeb 
Ricky01
Level 6 Valued Member
I've also just ordered a 20kg kettlebell to play around with so I could do some relative strength / rep tests if anyone's interested to see if isometrics is keeping / making me strong... or I'm just a dweeb
That would be interesting. Dweeb away my friend haha.
Also interesting about your shorter holds and how they make you feel.
I tried TSC in the past (I think we have probably mentioned this before) using a 20/20/20 set up (20 seconds of 50% effort, 20 seconds 75% effort and 20 seconds 100% effort - all roughly). I used a 'split' eg vertical press on day one etc.
This set up actually lowered my pushup rep max (not suggesting that this is a test worth putting stock in, but I had tested this around that time and knew my numbers).
Prior to this I had also tested a 10/10/10 set up. The main difference (other than the shorter duration of each segment and shorter overall time under load) was I performed each movement everyday (or very close to it).
This looked roughly like this:
Band around shoulders bottom of pushup
Elbows into workout pulldown (lengthened position)
Overhead press - band around eye height.
Bent over row - elbow angle about 150 degrees.
Band squat - around 90 degrees at the knee
This 10/10/10 set up on a more regular basis improved my pushup rep max (again not a test I regularly pursue but I had done at the time).
Richard
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
I've also just ordered a 20kg kettlebell to play around with so I could do some relative strength / rep tests if anyone's interested to see if isometrics is keeping / making me strong... or I'm just a dweeb
How will you do this without tainting your iso experiment?
onlyisometrics
Level 2 Valued Member
interesting - i think if i included longer isometrics again they’d be yielding ones rather than overcoming. That seems to be what coaches are doing in the athletic space - yielding for some muscle gain and also tendon health.
onlyisometrics
Level 2 Valued Member
I mean my iso experiment is hardly scientific as it is, but i’d mainly just like to see a) what i can do with a 20kg kettlebell and b) whether adding some dynamic stuff helps or hinders mainly with the measure of feeling good.
GreenSoup
Level 6 Valued Member
I love hearing about tests like this. Millions of dollars are not being spent in labs on this so broscience is at least something to share. My L-Sits kept tipping forward so I tried 8 weeks of 10 second x 4 sets x 3x/week isometric rear deltoid presses to the wall and it helped with my strength - the L-Sits still kept tipping but at least I could hold other rear delt weights longer than before so it looks like the isos helped to some degree. I guess I needed more strength and longer-term work at the time. I hope you will be able to share success in your work.I've also just ordered a 20kg kettlebell to play around with so I could do some relative strength / rep tests if anyone's interested to see if isometrics is keeping / making me strong... or I'm just a dweeb
onlyisometrics
Level 2 Valued Member
Thanks and thanks for sharing your experience too.
Not millions of dollars being spent in a lab but a lot of modern isometric research seems to be being done by this chap: https://twitter.com/dannylum82?lang=en
Also thought it was interesting Crystal Palace football club in the UK is / was using them heavily: Implementing isometric strength training during a Premier League season - Sportsmith
“The end of the season also revealed an increase in plantar flexor strength and rate of force development. Overall, the squad attained a 24% increase in strength without compromising pitch based training load”
24% stronger… it’s a percentage so it must be super scientific
Interesting to see some real world testing though!
onlyisometrics
Level 2 Valued Member
did my first workout with my new 20kg kettlebell today.
looked like this:
these 2 paired:
loaded carries 2 x 25kg jerry cans 3 x back and forth across flat 3 times
ab wheel 3 x 45 seconds
then in (what i understand to be) ATG style:
swings x 10
push press x 1
pull ups x 2
12 rounds in 30 mins
some relaxed hangs to finish
jotted down my thoughts:
- feel solid afterward
- joints feel good - was worried about hip discomfort on swings (from past)
- never got near not being able to talk
- prob coulda gone another 10 or so mins with same form
- higher reps on swings prob should be heavier
- fun to use a new thing
- like the atg approach - feels like work without killing self
- hope this fits in with my spontaneous activity schedule eg go skate whenever i want to
- i like the lower reps targeting strength (don’t eat enough to chase hypertrophy)
- maybe shouldn’t have called myself onlyisometrics
- anecdotally (like all of this!) i think an isometric workout 5 x 10 secs feels harder than this
sorry about terrible formatting - on phone and just wanted to share!
looked like this:
these 2 paired:
loaded carries 2 x 25kg jerry cans 3 x back and forth across flat 3 times
ab wheel 3 x 45 seconds
then in (what i understand to be) ATG style:
swings x 10
push press x 1
pull ups x 2
12 rounds in 30 mins
some relaxed hangs to finish
jotted down my thoughts:
- feel solid afterward
- joints feel good - was worried about hip discomfort on swings (from past)
- never got near not being able to talk
- prob coulda gone another 10 or so mins with same form
- higher reps on swings prob should be heavier
- fun to use a new thing
- like the atg approach - feels like work without killing self
- hope this fits in with my spontaneous activity schedule eg go skate whenever i want to
- i like the lower reps targeting strength (don’t eat enough to chase hypertrophy)
- maybe shouldn’t have called myself onlyisometrics
- anecdotally (like all of this!) i think an isometric workout 5 x 10 secs feels harder than this
sorry about terrible formatting - on phone and just wanted to share!
Ricky01
Level 6 Valued Member
Just reporting this back here as I thought the regulars might appreciate....
I posted before about a client that I had worked alongside. He was spending too much time at a desk and then sought out less than favourable postural pastimes eg golf and cycling (both of which I myself enjoy, so not bad mouthing them).
For a while after we started working together his daily movement homework, other than some rocking, head nods and rolling (all Original Strength based movements), was simply:
Lying on his back feet pulled in, arms in a T shape....he would pull his hands down into the floor ramping up for 5 seconds (maybe 3 seconds all out).
He would stay in this position but this time try and pull his shoulder blades together - same 5 seconds all out.
He would probably do this pairing twice.
After this he would repeat the same thing with his arms in a Y position. Initially he couldn't get his arms into a Y position without arching his lower back or losing points of contact between the shoulder and hand....so that alone was an improvement.
That was it....the result was visible improved reflexive posture. Lowering and then removing upper back pain and lowering lower back pain.
So........
Following this period and for the sake of evolving and changing things up, we continued a daily practice (I should say that he did the previous, above routine maybe twice a day), but only once. More recently he has been doing this:
Strength: TSC
T - fists into floor 5/5/5..
..scap retraction..
..Y fists down..
..Y scap retraction
Bottom of pushup (band around shoulders) - 10/10/10
Elbow on chair pulldown - 10/10/10
Elevated rocking against (band around waist and feet) 10/10/10
Optional:
Bottom of curl (standing in a looped band) 10/10/10
Extensions (on the floor in almost a child's pose, elbows almost fully flexed and driving elbows down into floor) 10/10/10
All movements are now staged reps. Previously his 5 second contractions were just all out. More recently they have been ramping up eg 10/10/10 - 10 seconds about 50%, 10 seconds about 75% and 10 seconds about 100% (obviously everything is guesstimated).
He continues to love the low time demand. On a recent trip to a gym whilst on holiday, he noted his strength was up in everything he would have previously done - he never previously tested maxes.
These sessions have been a great energy boost and have not brought on prolonged fatigue or muscle pain like previous methods he had used.
He is also noting improvements in golf both how he feels during and importantly afterwards/the next day.
Sorry for the long winded message....thought it might interest some.
Richard
I posted before about a client that I had worked alongside. He was spending too much time at a desk and then sought out less than favourable postural pastimes eg golf and cycling (both of which I myself enjoy, so not bad mouthing them).
For a while after we started working together his daily movement homework, other than some rocking, head nods and rolling (all Original Strength based movements), was simply:
Lying on his back feet pulled in, arms in a T shape....he would pull his hands down into the floor ramping up for 5 seconds (maybe 3 seconds all out).
He would stay in this position but this time try and pull his shoulder blades together - same 5 seconds all out.
He would probably do this pairing twice.
After this he would repeat the same thing with his arms in a Y position. Initially he couldn't get his arms into a Y position without arching his lower back or losing points of contact between the shoulder and hand....so that alone was an improvement.
That was it....the result was visible improved reflexive posture. Lowering and then removing upper back pain and lowering lower back pain.
So........
Following this period and for the sake of evolving and changing things up, we continued a daily practice (I should say that he did the previous, above routine maybe twice a day), but only once. More recently he has been doing this:
Strength: TSC
T - fists into floor 5/5/5..
..scap retraction..
..Y fists down..
..Y scap retraction
Bottom of pushup (band around shoulders) - 10/10/10
Elbow on chair pulldown - 10/10/10
Elevated rocking against (band around waist and feet) 10/10/10
Optional:
Bottom of curl (standing in a looped band) 10/10/10
Extensions (on the floor in almost a child's pose, elbows almost fully flexed and driving elbows down into floor) 10/10/10
All movements are now staged reps. Previously his 5 second contractions were just all out. More recently they have been ramping up eg 10/10/10 - 10 seconds about 50%, 10 seconds about 75% and 10 seconds about 100% (obviously everything is guesstimated).
He continues to love the low time demand. On a recent trip to a gym whilst on holiday, he noted his strength was up in everything he would have previously done - he never previously tested maxes.
These sessions have been a great energy boost and have not brought on prolonged fatigue or muscle pain like previous methods he had used.
He is also noting improvements in golf both how he feels during and importantly afterwards/the next day.
Sorry for the long winded message....thought it might interest some.
Richard
onlyisometrics
Level 2 Valued Member
Sounds like he’s feeling good - which is the main point of training for me nowadays! thanks for sharing.
onlyisometrics
Level 2 Valued Member
I did my second 20kg kettlebell workout today (did isometrics 5 x 10 seconds yesterday).did my first workout with my new 20kg kettlebell today.
looked like this:
these 2 paired:
loaded carries 2 x 25kg jerry cans 3 x back and forth across flat 3 times
ab wheel 3 x 45 seconds
then in (what i understand to be) ATG style:
swings x 10
push press x 1
pull ups x 2
12 rounds in 30 mins
some relaxed hangs to finish
jotted down my thoughts:
- feel solid afterward
- joints feel good - was worried about hip discomfort on swings (from past)
- never got near not being able to talk
- prob coulda gone another 10 or so mins with same form
- higher reps on swings prob should be heavier
- fun to use a new thing
- like the atg approach - feels like work without killing self
- hope this fits in with my spontaneous activity schedule eg go skate whenever i want to
- i like the lower reps targeting strength (don’t eat enough to chase hypertrophy)
- maybe shouldn’t have called myself onlyisometrics
- anecdotally (like all of this!) i think an isometric workout 5 x 10 secs feels harder than this
sorry about terrible formatting - on phone and just wanted to share!
Same as before but did 16 rounds in 30 minutes this time, and shoulders on push press felt smoother - guess just getting technique down more.
I could probably be doing 2 reps on pushes and maybe 3 on pull ups but want to keep form good and take things slowly.
Again really like the pace of this workout.
Gonna alternate between isos and kettlebell for a while.
Training for Life
Level 6 Valued Member
Could you tell more about the elbow on chair pulldown? Is it something similar to this one:
Sounds very intriguing, thanks for sharing.
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
At some point, give it a try on the same day. Use the iso hold as an intro and finish with the kettlebell - eg an iso deadlift followed by swings. You'll need more recovery, but the two are a potent combination that really seem to improve the other's response.
onlyisometrics
Level 2 Valued Member
How would you structure this? Keep it in rounds like the ‘aerobic strength’ stuff? Like do 1 x 10 sec deadlift hold then 10 swings, then 1 x 10 sec hold of overhead press then kettlebell overhead press? Etc Aim for 30 mins. Count rounds. Take necessary rest between rounds and sets to keep heart rate down? I’d like to give it a go!
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
That would work fine. I used it similar to a DropSet, iso hold followed by a (sandbag) kettlebell lift of similar movement pattern. Do it for rounds or 2-3 sets per and move on.
Ricky01
Level 6 Valued Member
Similar but facing straight on. A counter top would work as well. Naturally as you pull elbows down you start to move your body up. So you need to focus on staying down.
onlyisometrics
Level 2 Valued Member
i’ve dropped the kb stuff down to 20 mins a session (about 10 or 11 rounds) as it was taxing me too much with skating and climbing for the min.
I’ve also been experimenting with shorter iso holds of 5 seconds (3 sets of 2 reps of 5 secs, rest 20 secs between reps and 45 secs between sets) and 3 seconds (2 sets of 5 reps of 3 secs, rest 10 secs between reps and 60 secs between sets)
supposedly shorter holds are better for peak force… but i kind of feel like my body likes the longer holds of 10 or even 20 seconds better. they give you more time to breath into it and create tension.
the athletic coaches using shorter holds for peak force development are measuring them with force plates etc so they obvs know their stuff… but maybe for my ‘feel good’ / better posture goals the longer holds are better. also in terms of mental willpower a 20 second hold is killer!
i’ll attach an image of iso hold duration (yielding and overcoming) i found recently that might be useful to others
I’ve also been experimenting with shorter iso holds of 5 seconds (3 sets of 2 reps of 5 secs, rest 20 secs between reps and 45 secs between sets) and 3 seconds (2 sets of 5 reps of 3 secs, rest 10 secs between reps and 60 secs between sets)
supposedly shorter holds are better for peak force… but i kind of feel like my body likes the longer holds of 10 or even 20 seconds better. they give you more time to breath into it and create tension.
the athletic coaches using shorter holds for peak force development are measuring them with force plates etc so they obvs know their stuff… but maybe for my ‘feel good’ / better posture goals the longer holds are better. also in terms of mental willpower a 20 second hold is killer!
i’ll attach an image of iso hold duration (yielding and overcoming) i found recently that might be useful to others
