vojtakubi
Level 3 Valued Member
How many weeks you did plan A?
"The Best All-Around Training Method EVER"- 6 months in, I'd say YES!!!!!
- Thread starter don fannucci
- Start date
conor78
Level 6 Valued Member
Was on Swing/GU from July and got to intermediate target. Started single jerk plan mid August. Had comp in Sep. Up to 30 mins CJCJC and will step load thid for the next week then push on with the 3 CJ format and then plan B. Eventually hope to rerun with 40kg in the new year….
Pete L
Level 6 Valued Member
Shorter!
But that's kind of obvious.
I bought 36 kg a d couldn't resist achieving Timeless with it first.
Building up Plan B for 40 sets was pretty straightforward despite double the volume within a couple of months.
Midlife Beast
Level 4 Valued Member
This seems perfect for me, glad I came across this post!
For adding some grindy lifts, do we think 3x3 floor press on Monday and 3x3 barbell front squat on Thursday will work?
For adding some grindy lifts, do we think 3x3 floor press on Monday and 3x3 barbell front squat on Thursday will work?
The biggest difference is going to be the length of the sets. Most of Giant (1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 2.0) is reps of 5+. Giant of C&J can take around/up to a minute to do. A&A sets generally are much shorter - usually less than 20s. If you obey the stop signs, Giant 3.0 and an A&A program of C&J would be relatively similar.
Anth
Level 4 Valued Member
What are the differing effects of each kind of training? I'm currently doing the Giant right now, but I'd prefer doing it x2 a week. Once I finish, I might go over to this program.
conor78
Level 6 Valued Member
Anth,
I run Giant 1.0 and 3.0 in the past with CP. I run various plans from KBSF both Sw/Gu and single and double CJ. I train BJJ 3 times a week so the CJ program is a perfect fit.
The Giant is a tough density protocol that gets results. It made more muscular but also increased my appetite. I don’t think I could push the needle on it and still train bjj. Sets of 6 double CJ using a 6-12RM would be taxing.
I’m 45 so recovery has now become an important factor to consider.
The CJ program both single and double is amazing. I run through to completion with 32kg then swapped across to the doubles before restarting with 40kg. I’ve unfortunately picked up a shoulder injury grappling which likely means it’ll be late January before I can restart it. For me the CJ made me feel very strong on the mats, dropped 8lbs and my resting HR dropped from 60-51. I also had energy for grappling, work etc.
If you complete the CJ program I’d advise buying the KBSF product. There’s years of training in it..
Good luck in your training.
I run Giant 1.0 and 3.0 in the past with CP. I run various plans from KBSF both Sw/Gu and single and double CJ. I train BJJ 3 times a week so the CJ program is a perfect fit.
The Giant is a tough density protocol that gets results. It made more muscular but also increased my appetite. I don’t think I could push the needle on it and still train bjj. Sets of 6 double CJ using a 6-12RM would be taxing.
I’m 45 so recovery has now become an important factor to consider.
The CJ program both single and double is amazing. I run through to completion with 32kg then swapped across to the doubles before restarting with 40kg. I’ve unfortunately picked up a shoulder injury grappling which likely means it’ll be late January before I can restart it. For me the CJ made me feel very strong on the mats, dropped 8lbs and my resting HR dropped from 60-51. I also had energy for grappling, work etc.
If you complete the CJ program I’d advise buying the KBSF product. There’s years of training in it..
Good luck in your training.
Anth
Level 4 Valued Member
So it sounds like the Giant would be a good way to develop size and maybe strength endurance or conditioning. Maybe it would be a good idea to go through a whole cycle of the Giant to build a fitness base then switch over to KBSF as a compliment to Muay Thai training.
Bauer
Level 8 Valued Member
Sounds good!
Apart from outcomes, there are also differences in the way a program feels.
I prefer KBSF with AXE-style step loading, as described here:
Rob H
First Post
Hi guys, new forum member here. Been reading posts about q&d, a+a, axe and this very thread for a long time. Can't thank you guys enough for all your insights.
I've tried this program before, but I didn't really understand how to progress. Only after reading AXE do I now think I actually understand (triple progression while consolidating gains). Decided to begin again and post about the results here. The program I settled on now is 4 days of training each week, organized as follows:
1 - kb snatch (e30s) + barbell back squat (6×6)
2 - oalc (e30s) + barbell overhead press (6×6)
3 - (repeat day 1)
4 - (repeat day 2)
Only push 1 exercise per week. Hold the rest steady to consolidate. So, every exercize gets to progress about once a month.
This afternoon was day 1, did 3 snatches with 28kg every 30 seconds for 10 minutes. Could have kept going, but kept it at 10. Will push for up to the full 30 minutes next week. Squats 6×6 @ 100kg (225 lbs). Weight was light enough that reps were explosive but my legs need to get used to squatting again.
Tomorrow I'll do oalc and press. Oalc 2 reps with 36kg every 30 seconds. This is the exercize I'm going to push this week so we'll see if I'll have 30 minutes in me. After oalc comes ohp, 6x6@60kg. Like squats, relatively light weight.
I'm curious to see where this will go. My heaviest bell is 64kg, so who knows... This first session at least felt really good.
In the meantime i like reading all your posts so keep them coming!
Grtz
I've tried this program before, but I didn't really understand how to progress. Only after reading AXE do I now think I actually understand (triple progression while consolidating gains). Decided to begin again and post about the results here. The program I settled on now is 4 days of training each week, organized as follows:
1 - kb snatch (e30s) + barbell back squat (6×6)
2 - oalc (e30s) + barbell overhead press (6×6)
3 - (repeat day 1)
4 - (repeat day 2)
Only push 1 exercise per week. Hold the rest steady to consolidate. So, every exercize gets to progress about once a month.
This afternoon was day 1, did 3 snatches with 28kg every 30 seconds for 10 minutes. Could have kept going, but kept it at 10. Will push for up to the full 30 minutes next week. Squats 6×6 @ 100kg (225 lbs). Weight was light enough that reps were explosive but my legs need to get used to squatting again.
Tomorrow I'll do oalc and press. Oalc 2 reps with 36kg every 30 seconds. This is the exercize I'm going to push this week so we'll see if I'll have 30 minutes in me. After oalc comes ohp, 6x6@60kg. Like squats, relatively light weight.
I'm curious to see where this will go. My heaviest bell is 64kg, so who knows... This first session at least felt really good.
In the meantime i like reading all your posts so keep them coming!
Grtz
Rob H
First Post
Day 2 update:
OALC 2x every 30s. Capped at 17min.
OHP 6x6 @ 60kg. 3mins rest between sets. Will up the rest to 4mins next time.
Will keep these constant for the next few weeks. Later this week Will repeat days 1 and 2.
Next week wil be the week in which I Will push the snatch.
All in all, this style of training feels very good. No burn and not much deep fatigue. I May, at some point, change the 6x6 to rule of ten (Dan John). Depending on how the squat and press progress over time. Not yet, though.
OALC 2x every 30s. Capped at 17min.
OHP 6x6 @ 60kg. 3mins rest between sets. Will up the rest to 4mins next time.
Will keep these constant for the next few weeks. Later this week Will repeat days 1 and 2.
Next week wil be the week in which I Will push the snatch.
All in all, this style of training feels very good. No burn and not much deep fatigue. I May, at some point, change the 6x6 to rule of ten (Dan John). Depending on how the squat and press progress over time. Not yet, though.
Stuart Elliott
Level 6 Valued Member
I've been through Giant and A&A with double C&J (back in to A&A). Giant naturally requires more rest as the reps increase. I'm able to do a bent press programme and some bodyweight press ups and squats on off days when on A&A. The Giant requires more rest on off days, maybe just some mobility and zone 2 cardio. Both add strength and some size.
don fannucci
Level 5 Valued Member
update- did a very straightforward workout today-
88lb kb- 1 clean and jerk at the top and the bottom of the minute
50 minutes, total 100 reps- heart rate never got above 140... RPE was 4 for the right hand and 6.5 for the left hand... this workout plan is a BEAST MAKER
88lb kb- 1 clean and jerk at the top and the bottom of the minute
50 minutes, total 100 reps- heart rate never got above 140... RPE was 4 for the right hand and 6.5 for the left hand... this workout plan is a BEAST MAKER
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
Like a lot of people say, the best training method for you is the one you will actually do.
I do not like to train where I am turning myself upside down for instance, so I do not like pushups, skin the cats etc... Something that keeps me upright like C&J, presses, swings etc, feel perfectly natural and normal, and are effectively ''easy'' to do. If they are easy to do, you can do more of them and get more out of them therefore.
One of my biggest revelations in kettlebell training is just how much you get out of the simple military press! Pavel's works make this clear. It is one simple, easy movement, but the whole body gets involved! Of course the C&J is an amplification of this adding power to the move.
All very good stuff!!!
I do not like to train where I am turning myself upside down for instance, so I do not like pushups, skin the cats etc... Something that keeps me upright like C&J, presses, swings etc, feel perfectly natural and normal, and are effectively ''easy'' to do. If they are easy to do, you can do more of them and get more out of them therefore.
One of my biggest revelations in kettlebell training is just how much you get out of the simple military press! Pavel's works make this clear. It is one simple, easy movement, but the whole body gets involved! Of course the C&J is an amplification of this adding power to the move.
All very good stuff!!!
don fannucci
Level 5 Valued Member
update- finally cashed in some goodwill and bought a 44kg kb...
so tonights workout was single C and J of 36kg for1 round, 40kg for 1 round and 44kg for 1 round, repeated for an hour
RPE was 5 or 6 most of the time- occasionally going to 7 for the left with the 44kg... but the rest was just a punch the clock kind of workout... and i was getting stronger at the end, with the bell just flying out of my hand... the power output was phenomenal and i felt like i could have gone for another hour...
a year and a half into the this Workout of the Decade and i'm still getting stronger- at age 48... i feel beyond bulletproof- and i still love this workout and am always enthusiastic about it... the sky still seems to be the limit
so tonights workout was single C and J of 36kg for1 round, 40kg for 1 round and 44kg for 1 round, repeated for an hour
RPE was 5 or 6 most of the time- occasionally going to 7 for the left with the 44kg... but the rest was just a punch the clock kind of workout... and i was getting stronger at the end, with the bell just flying out of my hand... the power output was phenomenal and i felt like i could have gone for another hour...
a year and a half into the this Workout of the Decade and i'm still getting stronger- at age 48... i feel beyond bulletproof- and i still love this workout and am always enthusiastic about it... the sky still seems to be the limit
Matt_lux
Level 5 Valued Member
Thank you for your continuous feedback @don fannucci , this is a fantastic thread!