Depends on the struggle: Pain? Mobility? Weakness? Please be more specific, and I will give you more detailed answer.
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Depends on the struggle: Pain? Mobility? Weakness? Please be more specific, and I will give you more detailed answer.
the hansenator
Level 6 Valued Member
I was thinking more in terms of fitness level but would be interested in your thoughts for other conditions.
If you have someone around 50 who is out of shape that might be a lot of reps initially, especially if it's done as a daily thing. I suppose you would just work up to it over some time. I suppose my question is, if your age in body weight squats is challenging for your fitness level, should you focus on that goal over heavier exercises like barbell squats?
I do not agree, and have explained my reasons in the article linked earlier in this thread. It’s fine to need the counter balance of a goblet squat.
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Sergej
Level 3 Valued Member
ok, but isn´t a squat one of the most fundamental human abilities?
and even if you need a counter balance, you still should be able to work up to a normal, free standing bodyweight squat.
there is no reason at all, not to be able to do a free bodyweight squat. you MUST be able to do one, before moving on to pistols, etc. and if you tell your clients something else, than you are misleading them. we are talking here about the basic of basics!!!
and even if you need a counter balance, you still should be able to work up to a normal, free standing bodyweight squat.
there is no reason at all, not to be able to do a free bodyweight squat. you MUST be able to do one, before moving on to pistols, etc. and if you tell your clients something else, than you are misleading them. we are talking here about the basic of basics!!!
Pain? Refer to the medical professional.
Lack of mobility (maybe)? FMS.
Lack of fitness? For example, you are 50. Start with assisted squats first, holding e.g. a door knob. Easy sets of 5-10 - just few of them, maybe 2-3. Add a set every week, or every 2 weeks. Once you reach the desired total number of reps, increase the reps in the first set a bit. Then get rid of the support, and start to do them without assistance - maybe just the first set. Etc.
To your second question: bodyweight squats (assisted or free) and goblet squats (prying or regular) would be priority #1. Pavel said at our SFB Bodyweight Certification: Not everybody needs to squat heavy, but everybody needs to squat. Goblet squat is THE squat.
No. As @Pavel Macek indicated, we start with an assisted squat - our choice is the goblet squat where the weight isn't heavy enough to be a challenge to stand up with, but is heavy enough to provide a counter balance to the tendency to fall over backwards when performing a deep squat.
I again encourage you to read the article I wrote above, where I share some more details about the squat pattern. Yes, it is good and desirable for everyone to be able to perform a deep, unweighted, bodyweight-only squat but there are many ways to squat, and this is but one of them. Your idea of working up to a bw-only squat after starting with a goblet squat is one I discuss, and is one I agree with.
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Sergej
Level 3 Valued Member
thanks, i´ve already read your article after you published it and i read it again today. i think in this case we are looking at the goblet squat from different perspectives.
i assume it purely as a strength exercise, with a heavy enough weight.
maybe i am looking at it from a different view, because i never had troubles doing normal squats and cannot really understand how it might be a problem for someone.
i assume it purely as a strength exercise, with a heavy enough weight.
maybe i am looking at it from a different view, because i never had troubles doing normal squats and cannot really understand how it might be a problem for someone.
@Sergej, the nature of the goblet squat means that it's really impossible to hold a heavy weight in that position, and in the world of strength, even a 48 kg goblet squat doesn't qualify as heavy. The main purpose of the weight is to serve as counter-balance. Holding the weight in the goblet position can be challenging when it gets heavier but that still doesn't turn it into a strength exercise, IMHO.
Many people don't have the mobility to assume a deep squat position - it is a problem for many.
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Many people don't have the mobility to assume a deep squat position - it is a problem for many.
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WhatWouldHulkDo
Level 8 Valued Member
Going slightly off the thread topic - would it be fair to compare the heavy goblet squat to a carry exercise, rather than a heavy posterior chain lift? Lacks the lateral movement stress of a walk, but works the grip/hold strength.
I've been doing my goblet squats somewhat heavy, because I definitely need the hip mobility work, but also under the premise that heavy will challenge something, and that's good. This thread has me wondering if I should reconsider that.
I think a better comparison might be a Zercher Squat or Zercher DL, or even a kettlebell front squat - in the KB FSQ, once the weight gets heavy, it gets hard to hold onto long before it becomes an actually heavy weight to squat.
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@WhatWouldHulkDo GSQs, sets of 10 with 48 kg, well, not exactly easy. But please refer to Pavel's quote above: not everybody needs to squat heavy, but everybody needs to squat. I am pull/press guy - so "just" keep my squat pattern with various and relatively light weight - GSQs, HSQs, bodyweight squats, pistols, occasionally barbell back/front/ZSQ (I am especially fond of the last one).
Because it's a pattern that pulls the covers off all sorts of compensation strategies that load can hide behind. Hip, knee, ankle, spine stability, load distribution, eccentric deceleration...so many goodies to challenge. Plus, heading to the restroom with a kettlebell to do your business isn't always practical.
Adam R Mundorf
Level 6 Valued Member
Came across this thread because I'm currently going on another calisthenics detour. The bodyweight squat (and other slow tempo calisthenics) have been hilariously humbling to me.
It's allot harder than it looks to maintain a straight and natural spine while squatting without a counter weight. Definitely worth practicing.
It's allot harder than it looks to maintain a straight and natural spine while squatting without a counter weight. Definitely worth practicing.
jca17
Level 5 Valued Member
The best thing for my body weight squat was Zercher squats. For me, butt wink was mainly due to lack of engagement of core muscles that keep pelvis more or less neutral. Zercher squat is kind of like exaggerating the necessity of core to actually get your body to respond to it.
Bring that feeling of iap and bracing to your body weight squat.
This is for the specific problem of butt wink, so it probably isn't the right solution if someone lacks the hip mobility or something like that to even reach full depth. I was using a very upright and deep searcher squat, more like a front squat then a back squat movement. Bar pulled in tight to abs.
Bring that feeling of iap and bracing to your body weight squat.
This is for the specific problem of butt wink, so it probably isn't the right solution if someone lacks the hip mobility or something like that to even reach full depth. I was using a very upright and deep searcher squat, more like a front squat then a back squat movement. Bar pulled in tight to abs.
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Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
Mobility, stretching, balance, safety, ability to do it anywhere.
Certainly holding something heavy somehow or other while squatting makes you stronger though!
Sergej
Level 3 Valued Member
@Adam Mundorf
if bodyweight squats are hard for you, then you should recheck your training!
if bodyweight squats are hard for you, then you should recheck your training!
Adam R Mundorf
Level 6 Valued Member
I am a work in progress. It's a strange kind of hard. Not really taxing at all but it's allot more effort to keep my back straight without a counter weight.
Dasho
Level 6 Valued Member
I don't think a "natural" full squat (what some people have coined the third-world squat, but I digress) requires a perfectly straight lower back. I think achieving that and having it feel like a comfortable resting position (as it should) is more important than practicing a squat pattern that mimics a weighted squat. Your mileage may vary, though.
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