Training On Lentils

[Mirek]

Well I’m waiting for the revenge. LOL! I have to be careful, when I have to ask something about pressing from you.

I wouldnt ask myself anything training-related haha, i am legendary ignorant in that regard.
Ive read a couple of chapters in SS and ETK books by Pavel, resp., almost whole Rock, iron steel by Justa
and some parts of Gallaghers Purposefully Primitive and thats about it. And it was mostly the chapters about
history of iron game or some interesting characters, not the training methodologies.

 

[masa]

I wouldnt ask myself anything training-related haha, i am legendary ignorant in that regard.
Ive read a couple of chapters in SS and ETK books by Pavel, resp., almost whole Rock, iron steel by Justa
and some parts of Gallaghers Purposefully Primitive and thats about it. And it was mostly the chapters about
history of iron game or some interesting characters, not the training methodologies.

But there’s all the books one has to read in your list. Nothing else needed. You’ve been wise doing so. Not too many books. Whereas i read all I get my hand on and having too much information.

 

[Mirek]

... i read all I get my hand on ...

Me too but not about training etc
While we are at it, and if you are into russian literature, check Guzel Yakhina. She is relatively young author.

 

[masa]

Me too but not about training etc
While we are at it, and if you are into russian literature, check Guzel Yakhina. She is relatively young author.

Thanks for the recommendation. I will check her out.

 

[Antti]

I wouldnt ask myself anything training-related haha, i am legendary ignorant in that regard.
Ive read a couple of chapters in SS and ETK books by Pavel, resp., almost whole Rock, iron steel by Justa
and some parts of Gallaghers Purposefully Primitive and thats about it. And it was mostly the chapters about
history of iron game or some interesting characters, not the training methodologies.

Didn't you decipher the secret soviet methods so well that your post was removed as it was thought you were revealing proprietary programming?

 

[Mirek]

Didn't you decipher the secret soviet methods so well that your post was removed as it was thought you were revealing proprietary programming?

Yeah that was funny but its been basen on two SF artiles by Pavel as far as i remember,
no real book or peer rewied article.

 

[Antti]

Yeah that was funny but its been basen on two SF artiles by Pavel as far as i remember,
no real book or peer rewied article.

Yes, I think I remember it well, it is an amusing anecdote.

Whatever came of your plan? How did it work? What did you think about the big changes? I think 40% of max volume or workload, however we see it, is way little, but I could see it work if it's a high intensity part. Then again, intensity and volume weren't meant to be coupled, or at least to the western extent.

Have you ever seen the old soviet yearbooks or textbooks?

 

[Mirek]

Whatever came of your plan? How did it work? What did you think about the big changes? I think 40% of max volume or workload, however we see it, is way little, but I could see it work if it's a high intensity part. Then again, intensity and volume weren't meant to be coupled, or at least to the western extent.

Ive checked and on page 49 of my log I found following:

"Left hand press w/ 32kg bell went from 8 to 14 reps. Right hand from 8 to 15 reps.
Left hand press w/ 40kg bell went from 3 to 5, Right hand from 3 to 6 reps."

So after 12 weeks of 3-5 days a week pressing of 32 kg bell one gets good at pressing
of that same KB and somewhat better at pressing the 40 kg one. Is it good or bad?
Its not hard science and we do not have my (nonexistent) twin brother doing different
programm for comparison but i was happy at the time. The workload changes were
quite refreshing I remember.

I respond better to the intensity than volume, i think and my best results happened
when I was pressing often, like twice a day and heavy (40 kg KB or dumbbell).
Well maybe I shall say that high intensity AND volume is best, but most likely not in the
long term. And we are back at the cardinal question, how to cook those two ingredients.

Have you ever seen the old soviet yearbooks or textbooks?

Nope I really have not.

 

[masa]

Have you ever seen the old soviet yearbooks or textbooks?

If my memory serves, our snatch mutant @Alexander Halford has.

 

[Mirek]

If my memory serves, our snatch mutant @Alexander Halford has.

It must have been so already in elementary school: 8-9 Math, 9-10 Russian, 10 -14 Weightlifting.
Homework: Reading Science and principle of strenght training by Zatsiorsky

 

[masa]

It must have been so already in elementary school: 8-9 Math, 9-10 Russian, 10 -14 Weightlifting.
Homework: Reading Science and principle of strenght training by Zatsiorsky

So did you do your homework.? Reveal us the secrets. Resistance is useless.?

 

[Mirek]

So did you do your homework.? Reveal us the secrets. Resistance is useless.?

Hehehe I meant rather soviet school system which i was not part of

 

[masa]

Hehehe I meant rather soviet school system which i was not part of

Okay, fair enough.

 

[Antti]

Ive checked and on page 49 of my log I found following:

"Left hand press w/ 32kg bell went from 8 to 14 reps. Right hand from 8 to 15 reps.
Left hand press w/ 40kg bell went from 3 to 5, Right hand from 3 to 6 reps."

So after 12 weeks of 3-5 days a week pressing of 32 kg bell one gets good at pressing
of that same KB and somewhat better at pressing the 40 kg one. Is it good or bad?
Its not hard science and we do not have my (nonexistent) twin brother doing different
programm for comparison but i was happy at the time. The workload changes were
quite refreshing I remember.

I respond better to the intensity than volume, i think and my best results happened
when I was pressing often, like twice a day and heavy (40 kg KB or dumbbell).
Well maybe I shall say that high intensity AND volume is best, but most likely not in the
long term. And we are back at the cardinal question, how to cook those two ingredients.


Nope I really have not.

If my memory serves, our snatch mutant @Alexander Halford has.

That really goes to show that I think you got better with the lighter weight than the heavier weight.

For a while now I have actually learned to give less value on rep maxes compared to 1RMs. I think there are different skills to long sets than just strength, like elasticity and rhythm and the like, not to say strength endurance. Not a bad thing to get better at those, but best to know it's the goal. Besides, some attributes like the elasticity may actually be negative on strength.

So yes, I would agree that high intensity leads to strength. So SAID?

Regarding the Soviet textbooks, to both you @Mirek and @masa , they're really not secret or hard to find at all. I'm not sure where that idea comes from. I'm afraid it's an ugly marketing thing. They've been translated to English and easily available from the seventies. These days, one can even catch a glimpse of them at the high seas, if you won't purchase an electronic copy from Play Store or Amazon or the like. I'm not sure where @Alexander Halford got his copies, hope he'll tell and also divulge all the secrets and black magic he learnt from them.

 

[Alexander Halford]

The most cool thing I read is that:

"Exercises with kettlebell weights" by Ivan Lebedev, legendary "Dadya Vanya", father of Russian kettlebell, i was really surprised to know that he was a mentor of Arkadiy Vorobyev, the legend of soviet oly weightlifting.

 

[masa]

This is going to be interesting. Carry on.

 

[Mirek]

Regarding the Soviet textbooks, to both you @Mirek and @masa , they're really not secret or hard to find at all. I'm not sure where that idea comes from.

I never said or thought that. Pavel cited the english translations of at least some of them, so no problem here i think.
Here, Вадим Ищейкин: Дневник тренировок | VK there are two books of Lebedev as pdf files. Just scroll down a little, on the right side.
But they are hardcoded in russian, it seems. There is also pdf Goerner the mighty,
about Mr. Hermann "I can deadlift 300 kg using one arm only" Goerner.

 

[Mirek]

That really goes to show that I think you got better with the lighter weight than the heavier weight.

Yep, my interpretation too.

For a while now I have actually learned to give less value on rep maxes compared to 1RMs. I think there are different skills to long sets than just strength, like elasticity and rhythm and the like, not to say strength endurane. Not a bad thing to get better at those, but best to know it's the goal. Besides, some attributes like the elasticity may actually be negative on strength.

They never worked to well for me anyway. My actual 1RM was alway higher than the one predicted from
longer sets. Perhaps only estimate based on 3RM matched the reality. Makes sense I was never doing anything
remotely close to endurance activities and do not like high reps.

And yet, in my CC training I do often prescribed 20+ reps. Well, steping out of ones comfort zone cant be a bad thing,
time from time.

So yes, I would agree that high intensity leads to strength. So SAID?

Do you thing you are going to try american style powerlifting training, the linear progression of once a week
performed lift? Or have you already?

 

[Mirek]

The most cool thing I read is that: View attachment 12999

"Exercises with kettlebell weights" by Ivan Lebedev, legendary "Dadya Vanya", father of Russian kettlebell, i was really surprised to know that he was a mentor of Arkadiy Vorobyev, the legend of soviet oly weightlifting.

Thanks for the tip Sasha. Now lets see my how my rusty school russian works.

 

[Antti]

The most cool thing I read is that: View attachment 12999

"Exercises with kettlebell weights" by Ivan Lebedev, legendary "Dadya Vanya", father of Russian kettlebell, i was really surprised to know that he was a mentor of Arkadiy Vorobyev, the legend of soviet oly weightlifting.

Well please don't leave us hanging!

I never said or thought that. Pavel cited the english translations of at least some of them, so no problem here i think.
Here, Вадим Ищейкин: Дневник тренировок | VK there are two books of Lebedev as pdf files. Just scroll down a little, on the right side.
But they are hardcoded in russian, it seems. There is also pdf Goerner the mighty,
about Mr. Hermann "I can deadlift 300 kg using one arm only" Goerner.

Never said you did. Didn't really know. For some reason, it's typical to think it's secret, so wrote in that context. It's something I've found odd.

Yep, my interpretation too.


They never worked to well for me anyway. My actual 1RM was alway higher than the one predicted from
longer sets. Perhaps only estimate based on 3RM matched the reality. Makes sense I was never doing anything
remotely close to endurance activities and do not like high reps.

And yet, in my CC training I do often prescribed 20+ reps. Well, steping out of ones comfort zone cant be a bad thing,
time from time.



Do you thing you are going to try american style powerlifting training, the linear progression of once a week
performed lift? Or have you already?

I think the longer sets definitely have value. They build the base we can build more max strength on. Also a different stimulus.

I have tried the American powerlifting way, straight from the book, like Gallagher wrote. Though I could have periodized and been more strict with my accessories as well. I understand Coan did so. I can't remember how many cycles I did but it was successful every time, though I think I was dissatisfied with my deadlift with it by the end, or at least I interpret so now. All of that is in my log.

The way I understand things now, I think it's a method that will always work to some extent. I think exercise variety is something that's needed but it's also something Coan et al all did but it wasn't in the published in season programs. In a sense I like the idea of at least maintaining different attributes at the same time but I realize a certain deconditioning brings a fresher response to stimuli so it's not black and white.

As it is I like splitting my training so that a muscle group is worked every 48 or rather 72 hours. Of course, the harder it's trained, the more rest it needs. I would also say that a more maximal stimulus is always a stronger one, but one needs to have the time and resources to adapt to it. I have grown to look down on training in a fatigued state. It's something I have not always done for the love of training, even if it seems to be something the both peripheral schools agree on.