Kettlebell Two-handed kettlebell swings for cardio.

[Rob1993]

Hello fellow forum members,

I had a question regarding the two-handed kettlebell swings.

For my kickboxing, I adopted the two-handed kettlebell swings as my main source for ''external'' cardio since I'm too heavy to run for my joints and I don't really have space at home to jump rope. I found the two-handed kettlebell swings to be an excellent alternative.

The only problem that I have is that when I use my 40 kg kettlebell, I of course can't make long repetitions (I follow the 10x10 system). But my god is it amazing for overall strength, especially my grip-strength went through the roof (although I don't really need that for kickboxing but it's still fun).

So my question is: What kettlebell weight should I look for if I want to incorporate more of a steady state cardio workout? Almost as if you're ''jumping rope'' but with a kettlebell, if that makes sense.

Now of course, I'll keep using my 40 kg one since I think it's awesome, but I feel it's better for overall body strength.

Thanks in advance!

Kind regards,

Robbert.

 

[Bunn]

Set a timer for 20-30 minutes (longer if you want) and do a set of swings EMOM. If you still want to use the 40kg, start with sets of 5 and see how that feels after a few minutes have passed. You may need to add a few to find the sweet spot for keeping your HR up but not totally taxing yourself as you go through the session. Do a search and start reading on A+A, this is the methodology that will most likely meet your needs.

 

[Steve Freides]

@Rob1933, your question really isn't about the subject of the message, two-handed swings, but about what kind of swing protocol gets you what kind of benefit.

There are tons of great articles here on strongfirst.com that address this sort of thing, and it's also discussed in Pavel's S&S and Q&D books.

For you, I recommend an A+A approach, which if you want to do it with the same kettlebell, would mean doing fewer repetitions in each set, trying to very explosive with each repetition, and taking longer rests than I'm guessing you're taking now. What you'd want - try wearing a heart rate monitor to see how it's working - is a spike in the heart rate when you're doing your swings, then recovery into Zone 2 before you do the next set. It won't be "steady state" but it'll be steadier. You can also go even further in this direction and try something like 1 swing every 30 seconds - in fact, Pavel wrote in a recent newsletter and suggested 1 swing every 20 seconds as a protocol, if memory serves.

Hope that's helpful to you - if you don't already subscribe to our newsletter, I recommend that you sign up for it because there are lots of great tips in it.

-S-

 

[Adachi]

So my question is: What kettlebell weight should I look for if I want to incorporate more of a steady state cardio workout? Almost as if you're ''jumping rope'' but with a kettlebell, if that makes sense.

If you want to use swings for "cardio" or something more like General Endurance...

For myself:

I currently like swinging the 40kg for 10x10; timeless.​

I'd use 16kg or try a lighter one if you have it. for 5 or 10 reps every 30s - 60s, or so. Look for something that's around 1:1 Work:Rest​

40:20s - 20:40s. for myself the lighter weight doesn't spike the HR as hard, and leaves me with a lot of cardio-like Tingles. ... not sure how real that is.​

I have had some good luck with 2,3 32kg Swings @45s intervals or EMOM, but the spikes are steeper, and not quite what I'm looking for when I think of "Cardio".​

I'm having better luck lately(general-endurance-wise)with rack carries. 40kg, 1:2 work to rest. I've tried w:r 20:40, 30:60, and 40:80.​

all good.​

Play with that range of density, and take an interval off if it's accumulating too much stress.

a couple of things to take note of:​

Nasal breathing test.​

A heart rate that is Circa 140-150bpm(not a hard and fast rule.), around the start of your sets. or, at least a sign of moderate challenge​

Make sure that your power expenditure is glass-half-empty. maybe 30-40% whatever that means.​

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Hello fellow forum members,

I had a question regarding the two-handed kettlebell swings.

For my kickboxing, I adopted the two-handed kettlebell swings as my main source for ''external'' cardio since I'm too heavy to run for my joints and I don't really have space at home to jump rope. I found the two-handed kettlebell swings to be an excellent alternative.

The only problem that I have is that when I use my 40 kg kettlebell, I of course can't make long repetitions (I follow the 10x10 system). But my god is it amazing for overall strength, especially my grip-strength went through the roof (although I don't really need that for kickboxing but it's still fun).

So my question is: What kettlebell weight should I look for if I want to incorporate more of a steady state cardio workout? Almost as if you're ''jumping rope'' but with a kettlebell, if that makes sense.

Now of course, I'll keep using my 40 kg one since I think it's awesome, but I feel it's better for overall body strength.

Thanks in advance!

Kind regards,

Robbert.

Many options

Work up to 20 minutes of your current plan

Work up to doing one arm swings

Get some coaching, learn snatches eventually

 

[Luis T. Gonzalez]

Personally, I love the two hand swings. It builds great explosive hip power for many things. If you are doing kickboxing, then the added grip strength and other wth effects will add to your punching ability too. I would start with something like 5/5 with that weight and build up to 10 sets. Once you can get ten sets then start adding a rep to each set until you can hit the 10x10. Take generous rest then build up to doing 10x10 every minute on the minute. There is a tremendous number of articles written though on programming swings that you could take from. Heavy swings are great, and I do them, but I find the 32 feels best to me for swinging two handed. I don't really use a heart rate monitor I just go off feel based on whether I can do the next set explosively. If I feel like I can't perform the next set explosively, then I rest a little longer. When I start getting stressed and telling myself just one more set then I know I am done with the session even if it's only 6-8 sets in. Always adhere to the stop signs in your session. RPE greater the 7-8 on a scale of 10. Technique changes in any way. The sets turn into a grind rather than a quick explosive movement. Unable to keep up with the biomechanical breathing match.

 

[John K]

Hello fellow forum members,

I had a question regarding the two-handed kettlebell swings.

For my kickboxing, I adopted the two-handed kettlebell swings as my main source for ''external'' cardio since I'm too heavy to run for my joints and I don't really have space at home to jump rope. I found the two-handed kettlebell swings to be an excellent alternative.

The only problem that I have is that when I use my 40 kg kettlebell, I of course can't make long repetitions (I follow the 10x10 system). But my god is it amazing for overall strength, especially my grip-strength went through the roof (although I don't really need that for kickboxing but it's still fun).

So my question is: What kettlebell weight should I look for if I want to incorporate more of a steady state cardio workout? Almost as if you're ''jumping rope'' but with a kettlebell, if that makes sense.

Now of course, I'll keep using my 40 kg one since I think it's awesome, but I feel it's better for overall body strength.

Thanks in advance!

Kind regards,

Robbert.

I think this article is a good fit …

From "Simple" to Serious Endurance | StrongFirst

Here's a road map to building serious endurance. It is based on the idea of improving your level of conditioning through short but powerful bouts of work.

www.strongfirst.com

But if you really want a “20-30 min without setting the bell down” I’d suggest learning the snatch and and get into snatch walking or LONG sets more GS duration.

The Snatch Walking Protocol for Ultra-Athletes | StrongFirst

A growing population of endurance/ultra-athletes and coaches are moving towards StrongFirst programming. These athletes and coaches bring questions on program design utilizing Strong EnduranceTM protocols. In this article, I will share the snatch walking plan I’ve designed using one of these...

www.strongfirst.com

 

[JNort]

@Rob1933, your question really isn't about the subject of the message, two-handed swings, but about what kind of swing protocol gets you what kind of benefit.

There are tons of great articles here on strongfirst.com that address this sort of thing, and it's also discussed in Pavel's S&S and Q&D books.

For you, I recommend an A+A approach, which if you want to do it with the same kettlebell, would mean doing fewer repetitions in each set, trying to very explosive with each repetition, and taking longer rests than I'm guessing you're taking now. What you'd want - try wearing a heart rate monitor to see how it's working - is a spike in the heart rate when you're doing your swings, then recovery into Zone 2 before you do the next set. It won't be "steady state" but it'll be steadier. You can also go even further in this direction and try something like 1 swing every 30 seconds - in fact, Pavel wrote in a recent newsletter and suggested 1 swing every 20 seconds as a protocol, if memory serves.

Hope that's helpful to you - if you don't already subscribe to our newsletter, I recommend that you sign up for it because there are lots of great tips in it.

To add to Steve's suggestion. I had tweaked my shoulders and had to back off from pressing, Barbell squats, etc. So, I am doing light get ups then going into the program from Pavel -2 hand swings every 20 seconds. I use a Boss timer and built up to 20 minutes of 1 swing every 20 seconds I started with a 24 kg and have inserted a 32kg KB in the middle of the workout ALA S &S format keeping talk test standards. My HR after 20 minutes 120 -124 . I am 52 so my MAF HR is 128. I feel great doing this without any ill effects. Very explosive each time and really able to concentrate on form .

 

[Halfakneecap]

Yeah, swings are great for conditioning. Not my favourite kb movement but they just work. I did some this week for the first time in a long time, and the next few days my glutes and upper back where pretty sore.

When I did S&S for a few months, my general fitness was great.

Geoff neupert has “swing season”, I think in either KB Ultra, or KB express. It goes up to higher rep sets of swings.

 

[Pavel.Kosenkov]

Actually, on the subject.
GS style swings - you can do them for a long time. This would be closer to long slow distance.

 

[TobyC]

Slightly off target, but if you say running's not in the books for you, rucking's a great option. Similar aerobic stimulus, but easier on the joints if you use a reasonable weight(ie not 100+ pound military style)

 

[offwidth]

Likewise, rowing, and cycling offer lower impact alternatives for locomotive endurance training. Both activities allowing for both LED and Anaerobic threshold type training.
KB swings and snatches whilst fun and effective would certainly not be my tool of choice for real or serious steady state ’cardio’

 

[pet']

Hello,

As a boxer myself, boxing implies several kind of "cardio" training. However, the base is aerobic capacity.

For that one, I'd run...but if a low impact cardio is required, then I'd swim or row or bike, as mentioned by @offwidth I have recently tried another alternative which works very well too: prison burpees. In all cases, there is no jump, but you have a lot of variations (6ct, 8ct bodybuilder, Navy Seal, rocking chair...). I'd advise to add a lunge or two at the end though. Rucking or stair climbing with a backpack can also be great

This aerobic capacity is paramount for several reasons:
- having a very quick recovery between rounds
- moving effortlessly during no fighting sequences (which can be - to a certain extent - an "intra round recovery").

Assuming you have an aerobic base to build upon, I'd do A+A training with either sprints (probably the best option) or snatches (as you requested a kb solution). Without the aerobic base, A+A training is - IMHO - close to useless because you may create an aerobic deficiency syndrome which will impair your recovery for your craft.

Regarding the weight for the "steady state kb workout", I'd pick up an easy weight, no more than 24 to get enough volume. For instance, I'd a reduced version of the D. John's 10k challenge (maybe only 300 or 400 swings a day for instance).

Overall, I do not think that kb are the best tool for steady state cardio, unfortunately.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Gypsyplumber]

Hello fellow forum members,

I had a question regarding the two-handed kettlebell swings.

For my kickboxing, I adopted the two-handed kettlebell swings as my main source for ''external'' cardio since I'm too heavy to run for my joints and I don't really have space at home to jump rope. I found the two-handed kettlebell swings to be an excellent alternative.

The only problem that I have is that when I use my 40 kg kettlebell, I of course can't make long repetitions (I follow the 10x10 system). But my god is it amazing for overall strength, especially my grip-strength went through the roof (although I don't really need that for kickboxing but it's still fun).

So my question is: What kettlebell weight should I look for if I want to incorporate more of a steady state cardio workout? Almost as if you're ''jumping rope'' but with a kettlebell, if that makes sense.

Now of course, I'll keep using my 40 kg one since I think it's awesome, but I feel it's better for overall body strength.

Thanks in advance!

Kind regards,

Robbert.

I mean for me I can swing a 48 (heaviest I’ve had access too) but for pure cardio and higher reps the 24kg is my go to. That’s what Dan John uses for his 10k swing challenge. It may be too light for you, it’s not heavy for me but for cardio it gets the job done. Especially if I’m doing high rep sets.

 

[Halfakneecap]

I mean for me I can swing a 48 (heaviest I’ve had access too) but for pure cardio and higher reps the 24kg is my go to. That’s what Dan John uses for his 10k swing challenge. It may be too light for you, it’s not heavy for me but for cardio it gets the job done. Especially if I’m doing high rep sets.

@Gypsyplumber , silly question but do you tone down the power when doing lighter swings? I prefer heavy swings as it feels a bit wrong pushing hard with lighter bells. Purely for the purpose of doing high rep swings I’m talking about

 

[pet']

Hello,

Below is the article of D. John's 10k challenge:

The 10,000 Swing Kettlebell Workout

A Complete 4-Week Plan The best kettlebell workout. The most powerful kettlebell exercise plus hardcore strength work. Get ready to be better… at everything! The Kettlebell Workout Challenge Without challenges, the human body will soften. We thrive when we push our boundaries, reach goals...

www.t-nation.com

There is a video of swing technique in it.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[TedM]

Wow, great variety of responses here.

A&A is short burst- max of 15 seconds AFAIK. Usually it's 5 swings OTM.
(I switched from 10x10 and am loving these.)

Look for threads by @Harald Motz or articles by Al Ciampa here on the site.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I recommend an A+A approach, which if you want to do it with the same kettlebell, would mean doing fewer repetitions in each set, trying to very explosive with each repetition, and taking longer rests than I'm guessing you're taking now.

SupraMaximal Intensity Traning, SMIT

This is High Intensity Interval Training with long Rest Periods Between Sprints.

The benefit of SMIT is that it allows individuals to develop greater Power and Strength with the longer Rest Between Sets.

SMIT also increases Aerobic Capacity.

Steve's recommendation of Resistance Training SMIT is more specific for Kickboxing or other Strength-Power Sports.

What you'd want - try wearing a heart rate monitor to see how it's working - is a spike in the heart rate when you're doing your swings, then recovery into Zone 2 before you do the next set.

Heart Rate Monitor

Another good recommendation.

Heart Rate Spike occurs after your Explosive Set during your Rest Period; your heart rate bouncing up.

Number of SMIT Sets

One of the beneifts of the SMIT Protocol is that the training effective is a achieved with fewer Sets.

As Vince Girionda once stated regarding high intenstiy training, "You can train long or hard but not both".

There is an Inverse Relationship with Intensity and Time. As Intensity Increases, Time Decreases.

One of the best examples of SMIT is...

How To Get Fit with 3 Minutes of Exericse A Week

How To Get Fit With 3 Minutes Of Exercise A Week: BBC Doc Tries 'HIT'

High Intensity Training delivers the same physical benefits as traditional endurance training, even though it takes considerably less time.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

Let me preface this by stating that I initially questined this protocol. However I am now a proponent of it; especially for athlete or individual whos focus is with Maximum Strength and Power.

The HIT program he asked Mosley to follow was quite simple and can be done on a standard exercise bike:

1. First, you warm up for a couple of minutes with some gentle cycling: then you cycle as fast as you possibly can (“hell for leather”, as Mosley describes it) for 20 seconds.
2. 
   
3. Then, you cycle gently again for a couple of minutes while you catch your breath, then do another 20 seconds “flat out”.
4. 
   
5. Then, for a final time, two minutes gentle cycling to catch your breath, followed the third period of 20 seconds at “full throttle”.

Summary

1) Upside

a) Optimizes Strength and Power; greater increase in Anerobic Capaticy.

b) Increases Aerobic Capaticy,.

c) Very Short and Quick Program.

2) Downside

All Out Sprints are physically and mental demanding and brutal.

The Issue With Longer HIIT Training Sets with Short Rest Periods

1) Less Force Production (Strength and Power) is produced due Incomplete Recovery.

With that said, there is a place for that type of HIIT.

2) Limited Intensity of Each HIIT "Sprint" Set

I believe that LukeV pointed this out in one of his post.

Usually by the third HIIT "Sprint" Set you are tapped out physically and mentally.

Inevitably what happens with a high number of "Sprint Sets", is that most individual hold back so they can finish all of them. When this occurs, the optimal Training Effect is not achieved.

With that said, most individual able to endure the physically and metally push themselves when with Shorter HIIT/SMIT Sets.

 

[mikhou]

This is my favorite KB conditioning workout. Now that I've read it, I need to start incorporating it again. I noticed recently playing racquetball that I was more gassed than usual, and I realize that I was much better conditioned when on this protocol.

The Hybrid Power Conditioning Program - Breaking Muscle

High-intensity training provides the foundation for many modern training programs, but often what is done in research is not translated to practice. For example, the original research on Tabata workouts, a common form of high-intensity training, is often bastardized. A true Tabata session is...

breakingmuscle.com