all posts post new thread

Barbell What muscles does the zercher squat work

Stephen B. said:
Today I missed my last set of front squats because my upper back collapsed and I dropped the bar onto the safeties. Very interesting experience, I did not see it coming.
Click to expand...

That's the beauty of the front squat.

It's self-limiting.

I don't use safeties, so when I dump, I just dump onto the floor (but I use bumper plates).

Failing from core / back fatigue is probably the most common way to fail front squats, EXCEPT....

If you do squat wedge cyclist squats.

When I do those, the weight is much less, and I'll fry my quads before my upper back gives out.
 
I wouldn't compare the upper back strength requirements of front squats to those of back squats or zercher squats. The position is different.
 
watchnerd said:
Doesn't that mean it's a regression / easier on the upper back?
Click to expand...
I haven't done Zerchers so I don't know firsthand, but sometimes you choose an exercise that exaggerates a weakness rather than a regression, e.g, deficit deadlifts if you have trouble off the floor, right?
 
Ap0c said:
I haven't done Zerchers so I don't know firsthand, but sometimes you choose an exercise that exaggerates a weakness rather than a regression, e.g, deficit deadlifts if you have trouble off the floor, right?
Click to expand...

But if front squats are regarded as harder for the upper back than Zerchers, then front squats are the lift that exaggerate the weakness.
 
watchnerd said:
But if front squats are regarded as harder for the upper back than Zerchers, then front squats are the lift that exaggerate the weakness.
Click to expand...
In what you cited from that article, the author said it increases the involvement of the upper back. So, the Zercher seems to be regarded at least by that author as being harder for the upper back.
 
Ap0c said:
In what you cited from that article, the author said it increases the involvement of the upper back. So, the Zercher seems to be regarded at least by that author as being harder for the upper back.
Click to expand...

He says:

"If your weakness in the front squat is "losing" your upper back on the way up - your upper back rounds and the bar drops forward - then the Zercher squat will help you."

i.e. the Zercher is a regression if the front squat is too challenging for your upper back.

i.e. front squat is harder on the upper back
 
Last edited:
watchnerd said:
He says:

"If your weakness in the front squat is "losing" your upper back on the way up - your upper back rounds and the bar drops forward - then the Zercher squat will help you."

i.e. the Zercher is a regression if the front squat is too challenging for your upper back.
Click to expand...

I don't feel - no science claimed - that any Zercher work I've done has helped my FS. What's helped my FS is just-heavy-enough weights, weights that I can complete the lift with even with a bit of losing my upper back, and then trying _not_ to lose my upper back when I do them. I find this pretty easy to monitor: when the weights are too light, you don't really care if it starts shifting to your hands, but when you start not liking the weight shifting to your hands, that's the weight to try to avoid the shift happening.

-S-
 
MikeL said:
Sounds to me like the zercher is the regression exercise if you can’t FSQ with adequate strength. You don’t go for a harder option if you can’t achieve an easier, it’s just not how it works!
Click to expand...
You would with a lighter load. This is done all the time in Juggernaut's programming using deficit deadlifts with trouble off the floor.

Why would anyone ever deficit deadlift if what you said was true? Yet world champions do it all the time.
 
Steve Freides said:
I don't feel - no science claimed - that any Zercher work I've done has helped my FS. What's helped my FS is just-heavy-enough weights, weights that I can complete the lift with even with a bit of losing my upper back, and then trying _not_ to lose my upper back when I do them. I find this pretty easy to monitor: when the weights are too light, you don't really care if it starts shifting to your hands, but when you start not liking the weight shifting to your hands, that's the weight to try to avoid the shift happening.

-S-
Click to expand...

Yeah, it seems so much simpler to regress the front squat by just going lighter on the front squat.
 
I dont think of it as a regression but more a variation. I have incorporated Zerchers with many of my athletes due to how much smoother of a position it puts them in when they dont have to worry about T-spine and wrist limitations. the zercher allows us to load more then a goblet position or using Dumbbells which often times will be limiting for athletes in grip and core strength, I have been using an earthquake bar which feels a lot better then a normal barbell and also allows for a slight stimulus change in the stability of the bar without having to load "too heavy". I have been using zercher position for the following. Squats, Rev Lunge, Good mornings/RDLS and RFE Split Squats.

IMO zercher squats do not help increase FS Strength alone but rather continues to improve the squat pattern using slightly more load. I think of it as a heavier goblet squat.
 
John sardos said:
I dont think of it as a regression but more a variation. I have incorporated Zerchers with many of my athletes due to how much smoother of a position it puts them in when they dont have to worry about T-spine and wrist limitations. the zercher allows us to load more then a goblet position or using Dumbbells which often times will be limiting for athletes in grip and core strength, I have been using an earthquake bar which feels a lot better then a normal barbell and also allows for a slight stimulus change in the stability of the bar without having to load "too heavy". I have been using zercher position for the following. Squats, Rev Lunge, Good mornings/RDLS and RFE Split Squats.

IMO zercher squats do not help increase FS Strength alone but rather continues to improve the squat pattern using slightly more load. I think of it as a heavier goblet squat.
Click to expand...

When do they progress to an actual barbell back squat?
 
Pavel.Kosenkov said:
In my experience:
...An exercise should not hurt...
Click to expand...
Pavel, agreed.
On the other hand, most people will be hurting when they start doing FSQ or low bar BSQ. Usually some technique tips sort that problem.
When I start teaching my students ZSQ most of them start complaining about their elbows, but after a quick fix they feel much safer and stronger.
*Quick fix: attack the bar. Do not let it pressure you, you need to squeeze it.
That being sad, you can use a long sleeve shirt. It will give some protection.
 
oukeith1 said:
Honest question here. Why would/should I want to learn front squat instead of Zercher? Assuming I will never get into Olympic lifting….
Click to expand...
Stay out of it. No, really. The more squat versions you know the harder it is to make a decision on which one to use.
Just kidding ofcourse. Although very true for me. A few weeks ago I just started to cycle my FSQ and can't stop thinking about the other two versions I like the most (BSQ and ZSQ). And that is only if we count barbell squats (trying not to mention pistol squats and kettlebells).
If your goal is GPP, then no need to worry about anything. ZSQ will deliver.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom