watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
I don't think I've heard any of the active weightlifters on the board discourage people for any of these reasons.
If you want to learn, go learn!
Just be patient.
Barbell Why Powerlifters Struggle with Weightlifting
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I don't think I've heard any of the active weightlifters on the board discourage people for any of these reasons.
If you want to learn, go learn!
Just be patient.
Dydo
Level 5 Valued Member
In an interview I watched a few years ago, where a competitor from my country was asked about his OL training, he said that he started when he was young, but for a year he only trained with the barbell and was not allowed to add any extra weights. I don't know if everyone trained this way, but despite being a small country we were a leading world power in this sport. Even the Russians had come to see what systems our weightlifters train on.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
It's common among children around the world, in many countries.
For adults, most novices (as shown in the video) start with a PVC pipe.
bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
Yeah I haven't either. I was referring to the discussion regarding Dan John (apparently) telling people they ought to be able to do a 2-minute overhead squat hold. I realize there is context there, but, as the discussion unfolded, that context was revealed. Also, not everyone will interpret things that way. I do see some stuff online and on social media about about "not loading a movement until the movement is 'perfect.'" Meanwhile, there are countless elite athletes who wouldn't pass those "tests."
Same with posture. Usain Bolt has scoliosis, Michael Phelps has kyphosis... Same with the "wide foot obsession." I am 100% on board with the idea that foot health has a HUGE impact on overall health, and. . .Having the ability to toe-spread, and the ability to move into and out of pronation seem to be key to improved movement, and....I have seen some photos of the feet of pro athletes who's feet are far from that idealized "optimal."
As with many other topics here, I think the key is "if you are making progress without pain, carry on." The short of it is that you have to start somewhere, and if you wait until your form is "perfect" to start really training, you won't get far.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Yup, like so many things, a beginner needs to focus on doing the thing to improve at doing the thing.
My experience has been that a lot of folks - maybe even many, maybe even most who are new to the lift - can't get an empty bar down to the shoulders in the FSQ. Like many things a bit more weight will help, but one should use just enough to challenge flexibility and to get the bar where it's supposed to be.
-S-
bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
yeah.... I tried to find the video but now it says "unavailable in your country..." If you google it you can find a couple pics. I think it was done in a building in Dubai when he visited years ago...
solarbear
Level 6 Valued Member
You're probably not hanging around weightlifters who are super heavies.
No, I am looking at the stronger guys in the gym and how they are more built like Eddie Hall and how they might struggle to scratch their backs let alone reach the positions to do Olympic Lifting in comfort. This guy is clearly a naturally big bloke who also has tremendous flexibility.
My only point was that there is a large degree of flexibility and other athletic factors that might make Weight Lifting frustrating for your typical lifter. I know if I was to go and do OL it would have so many obstacles, due to previous injuries and maybe my hip, ankle and wrist genetics, that it would not be fun and it would be frustrating at every turn. I see a lot more guys built like myself (sort of a muscular dad bod LOL) than Matt Fraser getting around town and I imagine they have similar issues.
The question was why might Powerlifters struggle with OL? My quote from DJ was just to show that there are some very specific flexibility requirements to being able to do it well. Guys who have the genetics to be great powerlifters might not have the genetics to be good at OL.
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watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Looks like it is from 2020.
Here is a pic:
I don't know FMS well enough to know what is a pass or fail on the 'touch your hands behind your back' test.
FWIW, I can't touch mine together, either. I can only get my upper hand to between my shoulder blades.
But I can snatch and overhead squat without issues, so......*shrug*
Maybe this is as much a comment on FMS as anything.
Boris Bachmann
Level 8 Valued Member
It's not really a pass or fail thing. I mean, you get a score, but only a doofus like ME would get irritated and take it personal at not maxing out the score on every screen...
If he was tested in 2020, that's well past his prime so I don't know how anyone would conclude much of anything other than "Welp, that's his score now."
Guessing plenty of folk could grab their hands but not be able to perform a nice vertical squat.
Me too to both.
bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
That ^^ was what I getting at. Sometimes a “test” isn’t a good indicator of potential performance. Context can be hugely important imo.
Compare his FMS overhead squat to his “normal” overhead squat. I’m not knocking FMS by the way; just trying to point out that unloaded movement is a lot different than loaded movement. A lot of people can’t squat well without load, but it’s considered perfectly acceptable to have them goblet squat (or otherwise anterior load to get deeper).
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Heck, I'm like that.
My overhead squat technique from best to worse goes:
> Moderate load > empty 20 kg bar > 15 lb steel war bar > PVC > max limit load
MikeTheBear
Level 6 Valued Member
Same. As long as I can do those things I'm calling myself good.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
There is a weird correlation amongst a small sample size of people I know where:
Able to grab hands is highly correlated with being vegan
grouchyjarhead
Level 6 Valued Member
I did that same routine in the past. 70s Big was one of the best S&C blogs on the Internet in its heyday. When Justin Lascek went active duty Army, it basically died off.
From my own experience - I used to train at a powerlifting gym with a friend of mine who was a top notch lifter. He was pushing for a shirted 600 bench as a 198, and pulled 700 raw. Super strong dude, great friend, love the guy. He saw me knocking out overhead squats in the gym one day and wanted to try himself. He struggled with 95 pounds. I'm sure if he put the time to it he could crush it, but he had other goals.
Another friend of mine, pro strongman and arm wrestler, just had a freaky strong OH press and as a dare knocked out a 405 overhead squat without ever doing it before. He broke parallel with it no problem - it wasn't the prettiest rep but it would count.
Strength and skill is all it is. If you're strong enough, and have the requisite flexibility, you can make the move from powerlifting to Olympic lifting. A lot of it is the mobility. When I was Olympic lifting, I was training in the martial arts at the same time so I had good flexibility and strength. The coaches loved working with me. Unfortunately I was more interested in strongman than Olympic lifting at the time, so I didn't focus on it. I regret that looking back.
Can grab hands, both ways, and definitely not vegan. And funny AF.
silveraw
Level 9 Valued Member
Weird, I remember watching his weightlifting seminar years ago and he taught it with a hinge and a PVC pipe.
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