Barbell Why Powerlifters Struggle with Weightlifting

[solarbear]

Or if you want to compete at the elite level, this is what it takes?

This one I think. If you are thinking of competing on a national or international stage you need the genetics.

But anyone can benefit from the Olympic Lifts if they have good joints and someone to teach them.

OTOH there are a lot of bulky guys who might not find it so easy. I'd be one of them. I got into KB simply because I wanted to do some cleans and snatches, thought they looked healthy, and doing them with a barbell with my shoulder impingement was quite poor feeling.

 

[MikeTheBear]

The way he teaches the snatch from a goblet squat position

I haven't seen that particular video. Yeah, I no longer rely on his videos for weightlifting technique. He is better than some I've seen but I think the way he teaches is outdated. Torokhtiy and Zack Telander (who just uses Torokhtiy's method) are better, IMO.

If someone wants to know what I mean by "outdated" I'll gladly answer that.

 

[watchnerd]

If someone wants to know what I mean by "outdated" I'll gladly answer that.

Yes, a lot of it from the no-contact era.

 

[watchnerd]

OTOH there are a lot of bulky guys who might not find it so easy.

As far as I can tell, the ability isn't very related to bulkiness.

I've trained alongside a lot of very chunky >109 kg super heavies who could hit all the positions, and also some <73 kg guys who struggled more than some much bigger dudes.

Limb ratios, hip and shoulder geometry, and torso to leg length seem to be bigger factors.

 

[John K]

The way he teaches the snatch from a goblet squat position, for example, strikes me as pretty head scratching.

Are you talking about how he has someone goblet squat down, put the weight down in the bottom, pick up a PVC pipe, put it overhead, stand up / down, put the pipe down, curl up the kettlebell back to goblet, and squat up?

 

[watchnerd]

Are you talking about how he has someone goblet squat down, put the weight down in the bottom, pick up a PVC pipe, put it overhead, stand up / down, put the pipe down, curl up the kettlebell back to goblet, and squat up?

Yes, that.

 

[Hung]

No, it will cease to exist the way wrestling did when it was dropped from the Olympics for a while.

if that happends 10 years ago, probably there will not any significant group of people train weightlifting in my country. Most of them are still gorvenment's racing horses. Only a small amount of people are non-proffesional and are inspired by Crossfit/Youtube culture but that group is growing slowly.

 

[watchnerd]

if that happends 10 years ago, probably there will not any significant group of people train weightlifting in my country. Most of them are still gorvenment's racing horses. Only a small amount of people are non-proffesional and are inspired by Crossfit/Youtube culture but that group is growing slowly.

Government sponsored-teams are often the most consistent in producing winners over many years and in refining the sport.

It's one of the proven ways of starting the lifters young and building them up over years and years.

In USA, it's probably a few decades until we start seeing kids who voluntarily start when they're like 10 years old becoming great in the their teens, like we do in gymnastics.

 

[solarbear]

As far as I can tell, the ability isn't very related to bulkiness.

Most of the bulky guys I know struggle somewhat with shoulder mobility.

 

[watchnerd]

Most of the bulky guys I know struggle somewhat with shoulder mobility.

You're probably not hanging around weightlifters who are super heavies.

 

[Dydo]

Very interesting topic. For example, I can't squat with a barbell overhead. My mobility is very poor for this movement. But I still didn't mind trying a lighter weight. 50 kg. I also lift them without a problem, but I put one video with 40 kg. Promise you won't laugh at me too much Still, this was one of my first few attempts at this kind of exercise.

SN

youtube.com

 

[Anna C]

Very interesting topic. For example, I can't squat with a barbell overhead. My mobility is very poor for this movement. But I still didn't mind trying a lighter weight. 50 kg. I also lift them without a problem, but I put one video with 40 kg. Promise you won't laugh at me too much Still, this was one of my first few attempts at this kind of exercise.

SN

youtube.com

Looks like a fine start! It's amazing how different it is from kettlebells overhead. In addition to getting there in the first place (doing the movement to get the weight up, and mobility to go there), the muscles have to learn to stabilize the weight in that new position, and then also do so while the body is moving for the squat or stand-up. It's a lot more challenging than it appears.

 

[Dydo]

Maybe I should start learning how to squat with a barbell. Right now I can only do about 1/3 of an overhead barbell squat. I also can't front squat because I can't keep my elbows as high forward and the bar over my chest and shoulders. My back squat is with a low bar because with a high bar for the required depth I do a low back flexion. I can actually keep my back straight, but I have to put a very low weight. So low that it's almost half of what I can squat with a low bar. And you know how ego gets in the way

 

[bluejeff]

Two cents regarding “needing good genetics:”

When it comes to the elite level, I think you probably need the right proportions for a given sport. In some countries they don’t want kids signing up for gymnastics unless they know they will stay smaller than average.

Weightlifting seems like it has a pretty wide variety of humans in it though.

If you want to learn something, don’t let arbitrary tests and “lack of genetics” gate-keep you out of it.

Regarding a two minute OH squat: unless someone specifically trains that position, I wouldn’t expect them to just randomly be able to do it. Klokov failed an FMS test but clearly he doesn’t have a problem putting 400lbs or whatever overhead.

If you want to do something, do what needs to be done to get there. Sure, it might take more work and patience, and sure, maybe you won’t be “elite,” but I think most people can get farther than they they think if they work at it.

 

[watchnerd]

Maybe I should start learning how to squat with a barbell. Right now I can only do about 1/3 of an overhead barbell squat. I also can't front squat because I can't keep my elbows as high forward and the bar over my chest and shoulders. My back squat is with a low bar because with a high bar for the required depth I do a low back flexion. I can actually keep my back straight, but I have to put a very low weight. So low that it's almost half of what I can squat with a low bar. And you know how ego gets in the way

This is a good example of what the video is about.

Weightlifting requires strength in different positions than power lifting.

 

[Steve Freides]

I also can't front squat because I can't keep my elbows as high forward and the bar over my chest and shoulders.

IMO, that's the first thing to start with. You can actually FSQ a light weight without doing it perfectly - you'll feel the weight shift to your hands somewhat, and you work on minimizing that. My personal example: although I'm just learning Olympic lifting now, I've been front squatting on and off for a number of years.

-S-

 

[Adachi]

I also can't front squat

The Zercher Lift may be an option for you, while you build up flexibility and mobility for a front squat position.

 

[Whosonfirst]

Two cents regarding “needing good genetics:”

When it comes to the elite level, I think you probably need the right proportions for a given sport. In some countries they don’t want kids signing up for gymnastics unless they know they will stay smaller than average.

Weightlifting seems like it has a pretty wide variety of humans in it though.

If you want to learn something, don’t let arbitrary tests and “lack of genetics” gate-keep you out of it.

Regarding a two minute OH squat: unless someone specifically trains that position, I wouldn’t expect them to just randomly be able to do it. Klokov failed an FMS test but clearly he doesn’t have a problem putting 400lbs or whatever overhead.

If you want to do something, do what needs to be done to get there. Sure, it might take more work and patience, and sure, maybe you won’t be “elite,” but I think most people can get farther than they they think if they work at it.

About ten or more years ago, I attended a WL contest at York Barbell, that also included a Masters division in it. I believe Anna's coach, Randy, competed in the masters division. Anyway I asked him who the favorite was to win the Open Men's division. He pointed to an overweight, pasty looking guy who looked like he might have worked in a pizza shop, and was eating a lot of their product. He wasn't one of those large guys who are proportional all-over, but had a spare tire, and looked pretty average to me. After watching a couple of his lifts, my guess was he'd been practicing weight-lifting since his teen years. The bar went from the floor to overhead with incredible speed. He was basically competing against himself, to set new PR's. He had a very high skill-set, and didn't look to have any genetic advantages.

 

[watchnerd]

The Zercher Lift may be an option for you, while you build up flexibility and mobility for a front squat position.

That's not a path I would recommend -- that's a detour.

To develop the ability to front squat, you need to practice the front squat.

Even if that's just with an empty bar.

If you can't get into the rack position, there are drills to help that.

 

[Adachi]

That's not a path I would recommend -- that's a detour.

To develop the ability to front squat, you need to practice the front squat.

Even if that's just with an empty bar.

If you can't get into the rack position, there are drills to help that.

The Zercher Lift may be an option for you, while you build up flexibility and mobility for a front squat position.

Never mind. don't do this. (at least - not for sport specific development)