Other/Mixed Your Warm-Up Is Killing Your Workout... and Gains

[Kenny Croxdale]

Warm Up

One of the issues is that many individual perform Warm Up that take away from their training. As the article below notes, like walking a treadmill for a few minutes, stretching or foam rolling.

The Ojective

As I have stated on this form multiple times, the objective of a Warm Up is to perform the least amount to ensure that you maximize your Top Exercise Set.

Your Top Set of an Exercise elicits your greatest gains.

Thibaudeau address this in the article below and mentinons that that is Pavel's view, as well.

Steve F's Deadlift Warm Up

I can find his post on his Deadlift Warm Up. Steve stated that his Warm Up starts with 75% of his 1 Repetition Max.

I am not a fan of starting out with the higher Warm Up Percentage for a few reasons.

However, since it works for Steve, that is all that really matters.

Now, here's the Cliff Notes of...

Your Warm-Up Is Killing Your Workout... and Gains

Any "stuff" that doesn't directly contribute to making the upcoming workout better is a waste of time, energy, recovery capacity, and neural drive. In fact, an overly extensive warm-up can greatly diminish how much "effective work" you can do by causing some central fatigue.

...only perform a few sets of the main lift (1-3) before starting the actual workout.

Those sets must be done with maximal intent. Try to be VIOLENT with the bar and produce maximum tension.

What About Mobility?

...intense stretching/mobility work increases the risk of injuries when done prior to lifting.

Reduce force potential for a few hours

Side Notes

1) One of the most effective method of obtaining more flexibility is to perform Full Range Movements: Full Squats, Deficit Deadlifts, Dumbbell Bench Presses, Pull Up/Chins, etc.

These movements are referred to as "Loaded Stretches". Along with improving flexibility, research shows that "Load Stretches" elicit an increase in muscle mass.

2) Stretching a Muscle Group prior to performing an Exercise for that particular Muscle Group, decrease force production.

This means less Strength, Power and Speed are produced. You move less weight, which is counter productive.

3) Ironically, Stretching Antagonist Muscles prior to performing an Agonist Exercise increasee force production.

Example

Streching the Lats prior to performing a Bench Press increase force production in the Bench Press.

The reason is that the Antagoinst Muscle (the Lats in this example) elicit a Braking Effect in the Agonist Muscles (the Bench Pressing in this example).

Think of Stretching the Antagonist Muscle prior peforming a Agonist Exercise as taking off the Emergency Brake On a car, rather tha diving with the Emergency Brake On.

 

[Adachi]

I have always sensed that stretching after, or entirely outside of, the day's practice has seemed more profitable than stretching before practicing a movement.

much to my surprise - the most profitable preparatory movement I've found so far seems to be jumping jacks. I don't have a specific prep routine but... if I go for a minute or two of jumping jacks in sets of 20-50, it will have changed the perceived sensations (positively) of a day's practice every time I've tried it. My supposition as to why is that it is mobilizing aerobic energy system pathways.

my deadlifts move faster, my swings are sharper, and my snatches pop more easily overhead.

I now tend to stretch and practice mobility in 1-minute spurts sporadically throughout the day and week.
when I wake up, for a minute I'll stretch in a scorpion-like twist.
when I get up from my desk for coffee, I'll spend 30 seconds on the McGill Big three for a minute. a couple of times each morning.
waiting for my lunch to heat in the break room, I get into the bottom of a squat stance and pry around.
when I get home - If I had a pull-up bar I'd hang from it. for now, I suspend myself on chairs at the top of a dip position.
while the kids munch on dinner, I'll alternate downward and upward dog for 30 seconds.

I haven't sensed these warmup/stretch/mobility/motions as having any quantifiable difference due to the time of day they're practiced, or the proximity to the day's practice/work-sets, except that they do not seem to add anything as a preparation for a day's practice. insofar as there doesn't seem to be any positive difference, it saves me quite a bit of time to sprinkle them throughout the day/week.

I will try out using a sampling of the day's movements as preparatory movements and see whether that helps me.
Like warm-up sets (which, I am loath to do.)

 

[silveraw]

3) Ironically, Stretching Antagonist Muscles prior to performing an Agonist Exercise increasee force production.

The ole hip flexor stretch before squats is a great thing I picked up from ETK. I was surprised at how well it worked.

Also, I appreciate the Athlean X title of the thread.

 

[Wyanokie]

What About Mobility?

...intense stretching/mobility work increases the risk of injuries when done prior to lifting.

@Kenny Croxdale thanks for the info, this is interesting. Would light mobility work also not be recommended? My pre-workout warmup includes things like band pull-aparts, shoulder dislocates, light KB haloes, prying goblet squats, etc. Do these qualify as increasing risk of injury?

 

[Stephen B.]

Also, what about “Dynamic stretches” like toy soldiers?

Personally, I like having many warmup sets for the bench press because I’m new to the movement, and when I don’t do a lot of warmup sets to get my groove/muscle activation right my shoulders get irritated the next morning.

 

[Bauer]

Thanks for posting, Kenny.

As far as I know short stretching, both static and dynamic can improve strength training. Something like 1-2x5-10 seconds, mostly of antagonists, but sometimes also of agonists. But if you are warm and mobile anyway, than there is not need for it.

Sometimes it is more important to prime the nervous system, for example with OS resets, breath work or jumping jacks, and specific movement patterns - depending on what you need.

Pavel shares his minimalist warm up in Q&D - basically prying hips and chest open in less than a minute.

But he mentions that it takes time an practice to get used to a minimalist warm up.

And then there is the concept of "the warm up is the workout" by Dan John, using fundamental movement patterns for it, like swings, TGUs and Goblet Squats.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

My pre-workout warmup includes things like band pull-aparts, shoulder dislocates, light KB haloes, prying goblet squats, etc.

Time and Point

Your Warm Up look like more of a workout to me. How much time does it take? It appears to be busy time consuming work, which was Thibaudeau's point.

Do these qualify as increasing risk of injury?

Risk Of Injury

I am not sure how Thibeaudeau came up with this.

Would light mobility work also not be recommended?

Full Rage Movement

Full Range Movement during the Warm Up with and exercise like Full Squats, Deficit Deadlifts, Dumbbell Bench Presses, Pull Up/Chins, etc. are effective for most.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

there is the concept of "the warm up is the workout" ..

Oxymoron

A Warm Up being a Workout is a contradiction.

However, that is what many individual do, turn their Warm Up into a work out.

The Repetition Pyramid

I don't see much value in ascending sets with descending Repetitions, like a Set of 12, the 10, then 8, then 6, then 4, then 2; which might be considered a Warm Up.

Many individual burn out before they ever get to their Top Set of 2 Repetitions. That usually due to pushing it too hard with too much weight in each set.

Hyperbolic 100 Yard Sprint Warm Up

The Repetition Pyramid would be like Warming Up for a 100 Sprint by; Running A Mile, then Half Mile, then Quarter Mile, then 220 Yards and then performing a 100 Yard Sprint.

No one in their right mind would do that but they will perform The Repetition Pyramid.

it is more important to prime the nervous system, for example with OS resets, breath work or jumping jacks, and specific movement patterns

Exercise Specific

The most effective method or priming the nervous system for a movement is as Thibeaudea stated, to with maximal intent. Try to be VIOLENT with the bar and produce maximum tension."

What also primes the nervous system for a movement or exercise is...

Post Activation Potentiation Training

Performing a fairly heavy movement that is similar in nature to the Exercise to be performed or with a heavier load of the Exercise being trained. Resting for a few mintes and then performing the Training Exercise in each Repetition as possible.

I don't see much value in performing jumping jacks nor "Breathing". Since Reset isn't defined, I have no idea what that means,

Warm Ups

As Thibaudea essentiallly stated, most Warm Up are a poor use of your training time and energy. It misinformation that been continues to be perpetuated. "If you scream something loud enought and long enough..."

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

what about “Dynamic stretches” like toy soldiers?

I Don't See The Point

...nor does Thibaudeau. He pretty much covered this.I like having many warmup sets for the bench press because I’m new to the movement,more important to prime the nervous system, for example with OS resets, breath work or jumping jacks, and specific movement patterns

I like having many warmup sets for the bench press because I’m new to the movement, and when I don’t do a lot of warmup sets to get my groove/muscle activation right my shoulders get irritated the next morning.

Warm Up and Technique Training

...are two different things. This has been covered in some StrongFirst post.

I have no idea what the reason is for your shoulder issue.

 

[Steve Freides]

Also, what about “Dynamic stretches” like toy soldiers?

Personally, I like having many warmup sets for the bench press because I’m new to the movement, and when I don’t do a lot of warmup sets to get my groove/muscle activation right my shoulders get irritated the next morning.

I do the same with lifts I'm not terribly good at or experienced with. I'll admit that when I first started bench pressing a couple of years ago, I'd start with an empty bar, but even though I'm not good at it, I'm experienced enough a couple of years in that I also start at about 75% 1RM, which is to say that I don't warmup because those 75% reps count as part of my lifting session.

I start my SQ at about 65% because I like to get a feeling for depth at that weight. (For BP, there's no question because the depth is always the bar paused on my chest.)

-S-

 

[North Coast Miller]

The Repetition Pyramid

I don't see much value in ascending sets with descending Repetitions, like a Set of 12, the 10, then 8, then 6, then 4, then 2; which might be considered a Warm Up.

Aside from training 5 sets to get to the heaviest load, pyramid up with fewer sets perhaps or with reduced RPE has been an effective hypertrophy strategy for decades, it works.

Training for power - not so much.
Overall I agree with the notion of a warmup being only sufficient to reduce muscle viscosity and get the metabolism firing. 3-5 minutes max of easy effort, maybe a drop or two of sweat on the hairline, no more.

 

[bluejeff]

Thibaudeau mentions "central fatigue." We commonly hear that "overtraining is hard on your CNS," or that "you will induce CNS fatigue." Mennon Henselmanns wrote a cited article about this, and why it doesn't appear to be true.

3 CNS Fatigue Myths

You know how squats and deadlifts tire you out so much? Why it takes days to recover after a heavy squat or deadlift workout? How you have trouble sleeping after a heavy workout? Why compound and high intensity exercise are more fatiguing than isolation work and higher rep sets? That’s central...

mennohenselmans.com

From Thibaudeau's article:

"Central fatigue . . .refers to a weakening of the central excitatory drive sent to the muscles. When you accumulate central fatigue, the excitatory drive becomes weaker . . .

"Any physical activity can (and does) cause central fatigue. This is especially true of activities of significant duration, those that cause discomfort, and those with a high level of sensory signals – which is the case for most self-myofascial work, mobility work, and peripheral activation work. Even central activation work like jumps and throws can cause central fatigue due to their explosive nature."

What's interesting is that he says " activities of significant duration." In Henselmann's article, he discusses how shorter, intense training induces less CNS fatigue than higher rep work. So doing an extended warmup does seem to be contraindicated. This is also probably a part of why you can grease the groove with low rep, "higher" intensity work and make progress.


Also from Thibaudeau's article:

"Remember, the more warming-up you do, the more you make yourself reliant on the warm-up to perform."

I am also a fan of training to be able to do whatever it is you're trying to do more or less on command. I have my own issues with my body that I am dealing with, but the goal remains that.


As to mobility/stretching:
I am mostly in agreement that if you train your body to move well, you may be able to increase ROM through mostly strength training. Where I am NOT convinced of this argument, however, is that I have yet to see any videos or images of the people who preach this doing anything I would consider "flexible." I haven't even seen pictures of these people touching their toes. So to that, I invite anyone who says "stretching is dumb, just strength train appropriately," to show me how flexible they are. If someone's goals aren't to be super flexible, but they just want some level of comfortable mobility, that's fine. I would like to see that said, though. I am just personally getting tired of seeing trainers online and in social media trash talking everything that's not what they do. Static stretching absolutely has a time and place to be effective. From what I have seen, some older studies where they had people hold super long stretches right prior to a maximum sprinting effort are used as "evidence" against stretching. But no one actually trains like that. Tell a gymnast or ballerina not to stretch.... they are arguably "explosive" athletes.

If you need mobility to do the work you want to do, then I think you should absolutely work on it. If it helps you, then do it. If it doesn't help, then don't use it.


Thib says in his article:

"My philosophy is to do the least amount of "stuff" possible to perform properly and safely during your session."

I agree, and I think that might look a little different from person to person.

 

[Hung]

Personally I do some row as a warm up for deadlift, goodmorning as a warm up for back squat.

 

[Halfakneecap]

My warm up is mostly mobility movements I consider to have a positive effect on my day to day movement quality. And I enjoy it so i will keep wasting my time with it happily

 

[John K]

I have not warmed up, I've "over done" the warmup, and I've done a moderate warmup. 90% of the time I do a warmup and feel better doing one. When I skip a warmup, everything feels like crap until a couple sets in, and sometimes (the winter!) I don't feel like I hit my stride until 30 minutes in. In the summer in my garage, I feel like I need less of a warmup - by the time I sweep the mat, I'm warm. In the winter when it is hovering around 0-10F, I need more of a warmup.

For me, there are 2 major "components:"
1. Warming up the major joints
1a. Getups and Single-leg work
2. Patterning the movement

Greg Everett's warmup has formed the base of my warmup. I'll usually add ankle circles and neck circles.


Often, I will do get-ups and single-leg deadlifts as part of the "warm-up." These serve as preparatory movements and as vegetables - they pattern the hinge, they open up my shoulders fully, and it makes sure I get them in daily.

For me, there is a "general" warmup (what I just described) and then a short specific warmup - a couple light sets of increasing weight ramping up to my working sets. These are moderated by feel - I might do more or less depending how I'm moving and feeling.

I have better sessions when I do this, and I have worse sessions when I don't. Maybe it is ritualistic magic, and if so ... I'm OK with that.

 

[Anna C]

The Ojective

As I have stated on this form multiple times, the objective of a Warm Up is to perform the least amount to ensure that you maximize your Top Exercise Set.

Your Top Set of an Exercise elicits your greatest gains.

Thibaudeau address this in the article below and mentinons that that is Pavel's view, as well.

This sounds applicable to powerlifting type training.

I did not warm up when I did this type of training session. It was not necessary, other than the sets leading up to the top or working sets.

I absolutely warm up now that I'm doing weightlifting / Olympic lifting type training. Mobility, speed, and technique all need to be on point.

Kettlebell training, to me, was somewhere in between. The warm-up and the work were not all that much different and sometimes blended together, much like they do in S&S.

 

[TimothyGander]

Maybe that's a completely retarded question, but what's the actual case for warming up before a GPP workout? Meaning, what is it exactly supposed to do? I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely curious.

Myself, the only thing I do is the pump stretch from ROP - it seems to "realign" my spine from the twisting caused by bed and daily activities. Sometimes I will also do such "cuing" movements for specific lifts, to refresh or exaggerate a correct movement pattern. But here and elsewhere I encounter the notion that "warming up" is about literally raising the temperature of muscles and/or joints (for what purpose?), or about reducing "muscle viscosity" (what is that?).

 

[Anna C]

Maybe that's a completely retarded question, but what's the actual case for warming up before a GPP workout? Meaning, what is it exactly supposed to do? I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely curious.

I would say it depends on the GPP activity, and depends on the sequence of exercises within the session.

I think of two general categories of warm-up benefit -- energy systems, and movement.

For training targeting energy systems adaptations, sometimes it's beneficial to slowly bring the aerobic system fully up to capacity before utilizing it or exceeding it (so, applicable to MAF/LISS but also applicable to HIIT). If you start sprinting right away, or if you're trying to hit the top end of maximum aerobic function but not exceed it, without this ramp-up the contribution of the aerobic system will be stunted and more of the effort becomes glycolytic. Therefore, a 5=10 min easy cardio warmup can be beneficial.

For exercises which have intense mobility demands or where you need to hit certain positions to do them correctly (as with Olympic Lifting -- but could even apply to something like running gait), you want to make sure your body has access to your normal maximum ROM before you attempt the reps for the day's session. This would mostly be performance-based, but could still apply to any exercise used for GPP training, For instance, you don't want to catch heavy weight overhead if the shoulders aren't warmed up and you can't reach a good overhead position. You also don't want to sprint if your legs are stiff and you can't even lunge well. T-spine mobility also helps and really makes a difference in so many movements.

Some people tend to be "always warmed up", already have a good aerobic engine, already always move well... and these become less necessary.

And, if training for strength with simple movements (as with powerlifting style training), neither of these applies much.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

I have not warmed up, I've "over done" the warmup, and I've done a moderate warmup. 90% of the time I do a warmup and feel better doing one. When I skip a warmup, everything feels like crap until a couple sets in, and sometimes (the winter!) I don't feel like I hit my stride until 30 minutes in. In the summer in my garage, I feel like I need less of a warmup - by the time I sweep the mat, I'm warm. In the winter when it is hovering around 0-10F, I need more of a warmup.

For me, there are 2 major "components:"
1. Warming up the major joints
1a. Getups and Single-leg work
2. Patterning the movement

Greg Everett's warmup has formed the base of my warmup. I'll usually add ankle circles and neck circles.


Often, I will do get-ups and single-leg deadlifts as part of the "warm-up." These serve as preparatory movements and as vegetables - they pattern the hinge, they open up my shoulders fully, and it makes sure I get them in daily.

For me, there is a "general" warmup (what I just described) and then a short specific warmup - a couple light sets of increasing weight ramping up to my working sets. These are moderated by feel - I might do more or less depending how I'm moving and feeling.

I have better sessions when I do this, and I have worse sessions when I don't. Maybe it is ritualistic magic, and if so ... I'm OK with that.

Similar to the SF warm up in your SFG manual.

 

[Ryan T]

Probably the best warm ups I've done are

5-7x1 BBDL at a light to moderate weight +1x5 prying goblet squat.
GFE or OS (I actually prefer these more as a morning recharge though).
1x1/1 GUs at 24kg.
2x5 sw @48kg
1x10/10 sn @16-20kg