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Kettlebell KB STRONG vs THE GIANT for Hypertrophy

gatorbait

Level 5 Valued Member
I have a question for @Geoff Neupert , @John Grahill and anyone else that has run BOTH programs…

When comparing KB STRONG cycle 2 “SLOW & STEADY” to running a “long cycle” of THE GIANT (I’m calling a “long cycle” for THE GIANT, running 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 & 2.0 back to back to back); which program tends to yield better results for hypertrophy? Or is it a wash, and someone should just pick based off which program they prefer more?

My specifics….41yo male, 6’4”tall, 208lbs, father of 2 young children, last year used 2 long cycles of THE GIANT 1.0-1.2 with double 25lb bells and then double 16kg bells. During that time frame my weight dropped from 228lbs (skinny fat) down to 198lbs and back up to 208lbs. Down two pants sizes, the increased 10lbs at the end was essentially ALL upper body muscle (shoulders, biceps, lats and upper back in general).

I just used clean & push press with one 16kg and one 24kg bell in THE GIANT 3.0 to get a 5RM in the double 24kg clean and press to run 1st cycle of STRONG. I just started STRONG cycle 1 & THE ONE 4day/Wk split. When this cycle is complete I’ll either run cycle 2 of STRONG “SLOW & STEADY” or a “long cycle” of THE GIANT next.

Followup question…. Does running THE ONE with STRONG “SLOW & STEADY” have a negative impact on hypertrophy?

Thanks everyone!
 
Halfakneecap said:
There’s enough volume in both you should be able to add some muscle. Phase 2 of Strong has lots of volume.
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@Halfakneecap Yes there is enough volume in both programs to add muscle…. I guess my question should have been more specifically “which program provides OPTIMUM OR MORE hypertrophy?”

Bunn said:
My personal experience, I got more hypertrophy from running the The Giant series than Strong. I did see results on Strong, but definitely more noticeable gain on The Giant.
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@Bunn thats why I’m asking. I haven’t done STRONG before now, but when I looked at the peak volume at the end of STRONG CYCLE 2 and compare to the volume in my training logs in both of the long cycles I ran on the GIANT by the end of GIANT 1.2 , both times through I was doing 30% more peak volume .
 
I think they’re so close in volume, particularly Strong phase 2, it’s splitting hairs.

I prefer Strong purely because there’s set reps and sets, no thinking about how exhausted you are, there’s X more sets of X reps. But really, either will work.
 
gatorbait said:
I have a question for @Geoff Neupert , @John Grahill and anyone else that has run BOTH programs…

When comparing KB STRONG cycle 2 “SLOW & STEADY” to running a “long cycle” of THE GIANT (I’m calling a “long cycle” for THE GIANT, running 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 & 2.0 back to back to back); which program tends to yield better results for hypertrophy? Or is it a wash, and someone should just pick based off which program they prefer more?

My specifics….41yo male, 6’4”tall, 208lbs, father of 2 young children, last year used 2 long cycles of THE GIANT 1.0-1.2 with double 25lb bells and then double 16kg bells. During that time frame my weight dropped from 228lbs (skinny fat) down to 198lbs and back up to 208lbs. Down two pants sizes, the increased 10lbs at the end was essentially ALL upper body muscle (shoulders, biceps, lats and upper back in general).

I just used clean & push press with one 16kg and one 24kg bell in THE GIANT 3.0 to get a 5RM in the double 24kg clean and press to run 1st cycle of STRONG. I just started STRONG cycle 1 & THE ONE 4day/Wk split. When this cycle is complete I’ll either run cycle 2 of STRONG “SLOW & STEADY” or a “long cycle” of THE GIANT next.

Followup question…. Does running THE ONE with STRONG “SLOW & STEADY” have a negative impact on hypertrophy?

Thanks everyone!
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Well, that's like comparing a red Caddilac with a blue one! They both work for muscle but if that's the most important thing I'd lean toward the Giant!

I've never run the "one" and "Strong " together so I can't comment.
 
Geoff Neupert quote from another thread.

The "Strong!" program is based off your 4-5RM. It's 3-phases: Strength (8 weeks), Hypertrophy/Work Capacity (there are 2 different programs here - 4-6 weeks & 16 weeks) and Fat Loss/Conditioning (5 weeks). It's designed for you to use the same size KBs all the way through.

"THE GIANT" is 5 different 4-week programs. 4 start with a 10RM. One with a 5RM. The 4x 10RM programs can be run as one continuous 16-week cycle, or multiple shorter cycles. The 5RM program could be used as a "starter" program similar to "Strong!".

The loading between "THE GIANT" and "Strong!" is much different. The 10RM loading is meant to provoke more of a strength and hypertrophy response right out of the gate as opposed to "Strong!"'s loading, which is pure strength for the first 8 weeks.
 
I've done The Giant and am 3 weeks into KB Strong and agree with what everyone is saying here. Both are amazing programs but if you are looking for muscle growth, The Giant. If you are looking to get stronger, well then KB Strong is best. Both will pack on some mass and get you stronger but the weight you will be using in each will have a different effect. For example I'm using 32's for KB Strong, when I did The Giant I was using 24's but for higher reps. Good luck!
 
Bill Lets said:
Geoff Neupert quote from another thread.

The "Strong!" program is based off your 4-5RM. It's 3-phases: Strength (8 weeks), Hypertrophy/Work Capacity (there are 2 different programs here - 4-6 weeks & 16 weeks) and Fat Loss/Conditioning (5 weeks). It's designed for you to use the same size KBs all the way through.

"THE GIANT" is 5 different 4-week programs. 4 start with a 10RM. One with a 5RM. The 4x 10RM programs can be run as one continuous 16-week cycle, or multiple shorter cycles. The 5RM program could be used as a "starter" program similar to "Strong!".

The loading between "THE GIANT" and "Strong!" is much different. The 10RM loading is meant to provoke more of a strength and hypertrophy response right out of the gate as opposed to "Strong!"'s loading, which is pure strength for the first 8 weeks.
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/\ This.

The Caveat: Some people are "wired" for low/low reps. Some people for medium/higher reps.

For the former (like myself), the "Strong!" program will work better for hypertrophy.

For the latter, and probably most people, 'THE GIANT' will work better.
 
Halfakneecap said:
I prefer Strong purely because there’s set reps and sets, no thinking about how exhausted you are, there’s X more sets of X reps. But really, either will work.
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This is another great point.

Some people do better based, upon their personality, with specifics. "Strong!" is very specific.

Others like the autoregulation and don't need the typical "restrictions" found in "traditional" programming. These folks do well with 'THE GIANT.'

Hope this helps.
 
If you're more wired to work with guardrails, you can do what I did last year with ph2 strong

I ran it supposedly using the short course using the double clean and push press but resting no more than a minute, when I got to the 5s, and 6s, I autoregulated by resting no more than 2 minutes on days I felt I was dragging my tail..

Still gave me the results I wanted as I got fairly lean (rough estimate was it was the same as when I was prepping for my level 1) and it was definitely "dry fighting" look (see what I did there)

But the bottom line is this, to add (or preserve muscle) it boils down to the quality and quantity of what you eat and make sure at worse, get 6 hours of deep sleep every night and the 15-30 minute power nap
 
Geoff Neupert said:
The Caveat: Some people are "wired" for low/low reps. Some people for medium/higher reps.
Click to expand...

Agree, it seems to be an individual matter.

Would say that I am wired for low reps. Got great hypertrophy results from Phase 1 and 2 of Strong that I never got from Phase 3. The sheer volume of really hard reps in the 80-85% sort of range seemed to work well.

Most other people I know seem to grow better in that 5-10 rep range and I would be tempted to suggest the Giant for lots of people.
 
gatorbait said:
I have a question for @Geoff Neupert , @John Grahill and anyone else that has run BOTH programs…

When comparing KB STRONG cycle 2 “SLOW & STEADY” to running a “long cycle” of THE GIANT (I’m calling a “long cycle” for THE GIANT, running 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 & 2.0 back to back to back); which program tends to yield better results for hypertrophy? Or is it a wash, and someone should just pick based off which program they prefer more?

My specifics….41yo male, 6’4”tall, 208lbs, father of 2 young children, last year used 2 long cycles of THE GIANT 1.0-1.2 with double 25lb bells and then double 16kg bells. During that time frame my weight dropped from 228lbs (skinny fat) down to 198lbs and back up to 208lbs. Down two pants sizes, the increased 10lbs at the end was essentially ALL upper body muscle (shoulders, biceps, lats and upper back in general).

I just used clean & push press with one 16kg and one 24kg bell in THE GIANT 3.0 to get a 5RM in the double 24kg clean and press to run 1st cycle of STRONG. I just started STRONG cycle 1 & THE ONE 4day/Wk split. When this cycle is complete I’ll either run cycle 2 of STRONG “SLOW & STEADY” or a “long cycle” of THE GIANT next.

Followup question…. Does running THE ONE with STRONG “SLOW & STEADY” have a negative impact on hypertrophy?

Thanks everyone!
Click to expand...
Having done all of this myself some thoughts.

GIANT is the better for muscle gain.
STRONG is phenomenal for building Strength and Technique
STRONG+ONE gave me strength everywhere but also helped me lean out quite a bit due to the volume of 2x24kg swings I was doing!
 
Geoff Neupert said:
/\ This.

The Caveat: Some people are "wired" for low/low reps. Some people for medium/higher reps.

For the former (like myself), the "Strong!" program will work better for hypertrophy.

For the latter, and probably most people, 'THE GIANT' will work better.
Click to expand...
@Geoff Neupert Interesting point for sure!

This "individual wiring" thing is something I've noticed in myself. I can usually retain strength in the 1 to 5 rep range but once the reps go above 5, forget it. Very perishable.

I've also found that taking those "mostly useless" rep max charts I can usually get a single rep that's higher than my repetitions suggested. By this I mean I'll do like 10 reps with a certain weight not able to get another rep. That weight may suggest a 1RM of whatever but often I find I can get a higher 1RM.

Sorry to go off course...
 
Mark Limbaga said:
If you're more wired to work with guardrails, you can do what I did last year with ph2 strong

I ran it supposedly using the short course using the double clean and push press but resting no more than a minute, when I got to the 5s, and 6s, I autoregulated by resting no more than 2 minutes on days I felt I was dragging my tail..

Still gave me the results I wanted as I got fairly lean (rough estimate was it was the same as when I was prepping for my level 1) and it was definitely "dry fighting" look (see what I did there)

But the bottom line is this, to add (or preserve muscle) it boils down to the quality and quantity of what you eat and make sure at worse, get 6 hours of deep sleep every night and the 15-30 minute power nap
Click to expand...
@Mark Limbaga I am currently running Strong! phase 1 with the push press. Would you suggest continuing with the push press for each session or switch to Military Press where I can? like the 10 x 1s
 
musicsherlock said:
@Mark Limbaga I am currently running Strong! phase 1 with the push press. Would you suggest continuing with the push press for each session or switch to Military Press where I can? like the 10 x 1s
Click to expand...
Not @Mark Limbaga here obviously but someone who's done Strong! many times and have used both the push press and the strict press......I'd stay the course with the push press and retest the strict press when completed. The push press gives a strength boost to the whole body which may translate to a stronger strict press when finished. Some say it won't help your strict press but it my case it did.

Hope that is helpful.
 
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