@Mark Limbaga I would say they took turns in the beginning. After that, swings progressed much faster.
Kettlebell Pavel Macek: "Solid: In-Between Simple & Sinister"
- Thread starter Steve W.
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@Michael Scott, if you want to do your getups first, wait as long as possible - I'd say a half-hour or more if you can.
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MarkSch
Level 6 Valued Member
Hmm, getups always progressed much faster for me than swings. I was using the 40K for getups long before my 32K swings numbers began to come down. It's certainly not pressing strength: I am currently slo-o-wly working through ROP with 32K as my workout weight, and it's a lot more taxing than S&S ever was.
It seems fairly consistent on this forum that swings progress faster than getups for most people. I wonder why that is?
It seems fairly consistent on this forum that swings progress faster than getups for most people. I wonder why that is?
rickyw
Level 7 Valued Member
Get ups progress faster for me and I am a skinny lanky guy. I was surprised when I started S&S because I thought my get ups would progress slower considering I am not super muscly strong and thick up too. All my sports have been lower body dominant. I wonder if it has to do with muscle fiber make up of the individual moreso than the sheer amount of muscle fibers. I am not a very fast twitch kinda guy. My vertical jump is not amazing and I do well in endurance events and have a pretty good v02 max even relatively untrained. Sure that will help with recovery between swings but I have less fast twitch to recover and the generation of max power demands fast twitch activation, the more fast twitch the better. Slow smooth get ups demand less power than hard style heavy swings even though your heart is still beating hard. I wonder if @aciampa would shoot my theory down or not? It would be interesting to see if this extends to others on the forum as well
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My guess would be that is has more to do with movement patterns; what one has developed or maintained in the years prior to doing swings and get-ups. My get-up progressed faster than my swing and I always attributed that to 6 or 7 years of yoga prior to kettlebells. The get-up immediately felt comfortable for me; the slow and controlled movements, transitions through poses, and use of tension and relaxation were just like loaded yoga (I believe Gray Cook coined that phrase), and I didn't have any mobility problems in moving through any positions. The swing on the other hand took a long time to develop. My first video was a year and a half after I first did kettlebell swings, and even then I see that the effective hinge and hip snap just weren't there, although I was already working up in strength and weight. It took another 6 months after that of regular practice for that pattern to really come together. But it had been so many years since I did any sort of jumping or anything using the hip hinge pattern, I can understand looking back now what a long road it was. And I've been a desk worker for so many years, I think there's some hip dysfunction or laziness that it takes a while to overcome as well. Just some of my thoughts...
Swann 1
Level 6 Valued Member
I also progress faster in the GU than Swings. I think @Anna C is right about previous experience being in play. I was just thinking about this the other week, and I also think that one's ratio of grip-strength vs. lockout strength may be an issue. I have a pretty solid lockout, and TGUs tend to progress pretty easily for me. But my grip has always been the slowest part of my Swing to develop, and my Swing progress is directly related to my grip.
I wouldn't spend too much time thinkin' on this one. Enjoy your good getups and work on your swings.
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Swann 1
Level 6 Valued Member
Don't worry, @Steve Freides, I'm not stressing about it. Mostly I think about things like this if I get bored at work and need to entertain myself with something interesting!
Tobias Wissmueller
Level 7 Valued Member
Thank you @Pavel Macek for this article from a beginner like me, am also referencing it in my intro post from yesterday because it had such an impact on me.
It hit me between the eyes, when I read
Until two weeks ago, I did three sessions a week and always did a work/rest ratio of 15s/15s with the swings. I managed, but not in good form. My heart-rate was like this on a day where I had a very light cold:
I got kind of frustrated. Your article saved me. Thanks again!
It hit me between the eyes, when I read
Until two weeks ago, I did three sessions a week and always did a work/rest ratio of 15s/15s with the swings. I managed, but not in good form. My heart-rate was like this on a day where I had a very light cold:
I got kind of frustrated. Your article saved me. Thanks again!
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@Tobias Wissmueller Thank you for your kind words - I am happy that you find the article useful.
When you allow yourself to go back to being a beginner is when you usually learn a lot new things
Robert Noftz
Level 5 Valued Member
One thing I have learned recently is how quickly your S&S time can improve when you improve your technique.
I have been practicing for a couple of months. It probably would have helped if I had an instructor. My swing technique was not very good and it made the exercise more demanding than it should have been.
I held the KB too loosely and it would sometimes start to pull my fingers forward and put to much strain on my grip. Perhaps that caused my shoulder to go too far forward as well. I also started to swing my hips back when the KB was to high and probably didn't use enough of my hips to get it accelerating on the way up.
I read Pavel's Kettlebell Simple and Sinister but probably didn't get the details close enough. I watched Pavel Macek's video on swing technique and made some changes. I started waiting until my forearms were about touching my midsection then I moved my hips back. I think this helped me keep my shoulders packed as well. On the way up I used my hips to initiate the swing upward more than I had before. I also tightened my grip a little bit and this kept the bell from moving forward in my hand.
In just a few days of focusing on the technique my swings improved dramatically. They felt easy. I wondered if I found a way to cheat and make the swing too easy.
I had been taking a while to get through the practice sessions with the old way I was doing it. After making the improvements my practice times improved dramatically and I decided to test myself. I went under 15:00 minutes total time with the break included. I was using the 24 kg and I am now going to start working on the 32kg.
I have been practicing for a couple of months. It probably would have helped if I had an instructor. My swing technique was not very good and it made the exercise more demanding than it should have been.
I held the KB too loosely and it would sometimes start to pull my fingers forward and put to much strain on my grip. Perhaps that caused my shoulder to go too far forward as well. I also started to swing my hips back when the KB was to high and probably didn't use enough of my hips to get it accelerating on the way up.
I read Pavel's Kettlebell Simple and Sinister but probably didn't get the details close enough. I watched Pavel Macek's video on swing technique and made some changes. I started waiting until my forearms were about touching my midsection then I moved my hips back. I think this helped me keep my shoulders packed as well. On the way up I used my hips to initiate the swing upward more than I had before. I also tightened my grip a little bit and this kept the bell from moving forward in my hand.
In just a few days of focusing on the technique my swings improved dramatically. They felt easy. I wondered if I found a way to cheat and make the swing too easy.
I had been taking a while to get through the practice sessions with the old way I was doing it. After making the improvements my practice times improved dramatically and I decided to test myself. I went under 15:00 minutes total time with the break included. I was using the 24 kg and I am now going to start working on the 32kg.
@Robert Noftz Excellent! Please keep us updated.
leapfrog
Level 1 Valued Member
Hello Pavel, thank you for your blog post. It was helpful. I have been doing S&S for about 2 years now. I was wondering if you might offer any tips on progression, particularly in the TGU?
I am using a 105lbs with an Ironmaster adjustable kb, progressed from 85 lbs. I am able to do the swings well, but am still working on the next stage in TGU. The 105 lbs Ironmaster does take a few minutes to adjust the weight - given how overall heavy it is, so I do not typically drop down the weight after completing the swings at 105 lbs. So my thought has been to just work on doing 5 rounds, each arm, of as many steps as I can get in the TGU. I can press the bell off the floor OK, and am able to sometimes get to post position (arm with bell in air, opposite arm resting on elbow) . Your tips to angle the 'bell arm and press harder with the planted foot def help. But that is about where I stop because I don't feel I have the strength/momentum/stability to safely try to prop up and sweep the leg under. I do S&S 5-6x/week. I recall in Pavel's other work he would "grease the groove" to break training plateaus or perhaps I am thinking of other strategies where one might build strength by incorporating rest, i.e. less training than nearly daily. Any tips to work specifically on advancing the TGU with a 105 lber? It definitely requires some adjustments!
I am using a 105lbs with an Ironmaster adjustable kb, progressed from 85 lbs. I am able to do the swings well, but am still working on the next stage in TGU. The 105 lbs Ironmaster does take a few minutes to adjust the weight - given how overall heavy it is, so I do not typically drop down the weight after completing the swings at 105 lbs. So my thought has been to just work on doing 5 rounds, each arm, of as many steps as I can get in the TGU. I can press the bell off the floor OK, and am able to sometimes get to post position (arm with bell in air, opposite arm resting on elbow) . Your tips to angle the 'bell arm and press harder with the planted foot def help. But that is about where I stop because I don't feel I have the strength/momentum/stability to safely try to prop up and sweep the leg under. I do S&S 5-6x/week. I recall in Pavel's other work he would "grease the groove" to break training plateaus or perhaps I am thinking of other strategies where one might build strength by incorporating rest, i.e. less training than nearly daily. Any tips to work specifically on advancing the TGU with a 105 lber? It definitely requires some adjustments!
@leapfrog Thank you, I am glad you liked the article.
I would suggest to use lower weight. I myself have difficulties with the first part - once I get to the elbow, the rest is quite easy for me.
I already did 5x1 get-ups with 44 for more than month, but I was sore all the time, and not really happy with technique. I have decided to drop to 40. I am doing get-ups with 40 for about month or so, and the deload payed off - it feels like 32 now.
As for the low sweep, I have found out I do it naturally a bit differently with a heavy weight - I just did a short video about it, please check it out, try it with lighter bell, it might help. It shortens the low sweep significantly, and it feels very solid for me. Disclaimer: not SFG1 standard.
Let me know.
I would suggest to use lower weight. I myself have difficulties with the first part - once I get to the elbow, the rest is quite easy for me.
I already did 5x1 get-ups with 44 for more than month, but I was sore all the time, and not really happy with technique. I have decided to drop to 40. I am doing get-ups with 40 for about month or so, and the deload payed off - it feels like 32 now.
As for the low sweep, I have found out I do it naturally a bit differently with a heavy weight - I just did a short video about it, please check it out, try it with lighter bell, it might help. It shortens the low sweep significantly, and it feels very solid for me. Disclaimer: not SFG1 standard.
Let me know.
That position is also a way to continue into the OHS version of the getup.
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