watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
I feel like you are saying the same thing you had quoted but just a slightly different way
I guess I don't understand your question, then
I feel like you are saying the same thing you had quoted but just a slightly different way
I guess from my POV, its already been proven that IF has no real advantage over any other isocaloric meal timing pattern in terms of body comp.
For autophagy it holds a theoretical advantage over exercise triggered autophagy, but by how much interms of longevity hasn’t and probably will never be established. Likewise for immune response.
If it fits with a lifestyle or is more easily tolerated by the digestive system, more power to ya. As a longevity increasing strategy, IDK. If it is at odds with increasing or maintaining muscle mass, then the older athlete should be even more wary.
And there it is. The studies that demonstrate clear efficacy are NOT replicated on people. And you can gain 5 years by quitting smoking. If you already exercise and don’t smoke, what are you looking at? A month, three, six maybe? Given the metas that show marginally overweight people live longer on average, you might equal the longevity of someone who doesn’t count macros and never misses a dessert.I just get the point in these longevity studies where I don't care if I get 5 more years of life if it means living like calorically restricted lab rat or becoming a Loma Linda retiree.
No one has mentioned the Warrior Diet approach, which is under-eat then over-eat as opposed to fasting then eating. It's what I've been doing for years. Typically I have a small protein bar (10-12 gr of protein, 200-ish calories) with vitamins and coffee in the morning, and usually something else small before my big teaching block which is about 3:30 to 8 PM. I'm happy with my body composition, have been in the same weight class for 20 years, and my deadlift numbers keep going up.
-S-
At least when I die young, I won't die hungry.But, as far as I know, all the longevity studies point to actual fasting as the trigger for all the cellular hoo ha.
The theory I've heard is that the cells go into "garbage clean up mode" to scavenge energy from leftover junk lying around.
Pretty much everybody intermittently fast’s when they’re asleep too.
IIRC last I looked it up there are only like two studies that measured autophagy and fasting. Both of them had mixed results. These were human trials. One pointed out that to replicate the effects of a 4 day rat fast you would have to fast long enough to lose 20% of your bodyweight.But, as far as I know, all the longevity studies point to actual fasting as the trigger for all the cellular hoo ha.
IIRC last I looked it up there are only like two studies that measured autophagy and fasting. Both of them had mixed results. These were human trials. One pointed out that to replicate the effects of a 4 day rat fast you would have to fast long enough to lose 20% of your bodyweight.
Which to be fair, has been done by a few people. But also, probably don’t do that.
Today the little town of Olalla, a ferry’s ride across Puget Sound from Seattle, is a mostly forgotten place, the handful of dilapidated buildings a testament to the hardscrabble farmers, loggers and fisherman who once tried to make a living among the blackberry vines and Douglas firs. But in the 1910s, Olalla was briefly on the front page of international newspapers for a murder trial the likes of which the region has never seen before or since.
At the center of the trial was a woman with a formidable presence and a memorable name: Dr. Linda Hazzard. Despite little formal training and a lack of a medical degree, she was licensed by the state of Washington as a “fasting specialist.” Her methods, while not entirely unique, were extremely unorthodox. Hazzard believed that the root of all disease lay in food—specifically, too much of it. “Appetite is Craving; Hunger is Desire. Craving is never satisfied; but Desire is relieved when Want is supplied,” she wrote in her self-published 1908 book Fasting for the Cure of Disease. The path to true health, Hazzard wrote, was to periodically let the digestive system “rest” through near-total fasts of days or more. During this time, patients consumed only small servings of vegetable broth, their systems “flushed” with daily enemas and vigorous massages that nurses said sometimes sounded more like beatings.
Intermittent feasting
From the discussion: Peter Attia did not do intermittent fasting properly, so it should not be compared 100% to IF. yes, one can draw comparisons between different diets and fasting versions, however, one cannot draw a conclusion from 1 type of fast and use that to describe teh effects of all other types of fasting. That portrays some deep level of bias.
No one has mentioned the Warrior Diet approach, which is under-eat then over-eat as opposed to fasting then eating. It's what I've been doing for years. Typically I have a small protein bar (10-12 gr of protein, 200-ish calories) with vitamins and coffee in the morning, and usually something else small before my big teaching block which is about 3:30 to 8 PM. I'm happy with my body composition, have been in the same weight class for 20 years, and my deadlift numbers keep going up.
-S-
Why would you think eating like a hunter-gatherer would be optimal for health in the first place?So, from a health perspective eating a diet that mimics the nutrient composition of a hunter gatherer diet with variable intermittent fasting should bring most of the benefits. This is purely from a health longevity perspective.
I feel like too many people want to acheive too many things at once (fat loss AND muscle gain)
So, from a health perspective eating a diet that mimics the nutrient composition of a hunter gatherer diet with variable intermittent fasting should bring most of the benefits. This is purely from a health longevity perspective.
Blue zone hot spots represent epidemiological associations of people who seem to life longer. In other words, the blue zone is not just diet it is an association. The whole human responds 24 hours a day to all the inputs, processes and outputs that occur. There can be some variation within limits but if variation falls outside those limits then health and lifespan are affected. So, the blue zone regions diet may vary a bit from the paleo diet idea and the paleo idea will still remain true.The empirical data on longevity and diet from Blue Zone regions doesn't match this hypothesis.
The 7th Day Adventist vegetarians in Loma Linda and the Okinawans are not eating like hunter gatherers.
Conversely, places with existing hunter gatherers still living and eating partially like they used to (e.g. !Kung people in the Kalahari) are not Blue Zone hot spots noted for extreme longevity.