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Other/Mixed Why Peter Attia Changed His Mind on Fasting

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
Gypsyplumber said:
Because it’s likely how we evolved and survived for millennia. At this point in time humans are the only animals on the planet who aren’t 100% sure what and how they should be eating lol.
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watchnerd said:
Evolution doesn't need to select for maximum longevity. Long enough to breed and raise your kids to maturity is 'good enough' to get your genes passed along.
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This exact point. The fact that something was survivable doesn't mean that it is optimal (whether for health, longevity, performance, or any other goal).
 
Boris Bachmann said:
Honestly, this falls into the "no s&*t Sherlock" category for me. I get why people like fasting over other methods, but yeah...
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Attia is primarily a cardio athlete.

Yeah, he dabbles in strength training for the Centenarian Olympics, but if you listen to him long enough and hear him talk about his proudest athletic achievements, they're in long distance marathon swimming and long distance bike rides.

Given that lens, I can envision a cognitive bias that may have neglected the (seemingly common sense) muscle loss aspect until it became too glaringly obvious to ignore.

Whereas any strength athlete I've talked to knows their strength goes into the toilet during even a cut (let alone a fast) and they'll admit they lose some muscle mass, too, in a deficit.

Now take that deficit loss in strength and mass and dial it to the max of zero calories....
 
Symanoy said:
With all the talk of IF, fasting, warrior diet and feast/famine, I'm surprised no one has mentioned metabolic flexibility. This to my mind is the biggest advatange of these methods - being able to effortlessly switch between fat burning and glucose burning as and when needed. This allows for far more consistent energy levels, the ability to perform well in a fasted state and a different relationship with food.

After a period of IF I found I could get up at 6am go for a 30 mile bike ride completely fasted with no issues with energy, 'hitting the wall' or feeling hungry. This would not have been the case in the past.
I lost a bit of muscle mass while I was transitioning, but it all came back and I have no problem maintaining it with a fasting window of 18-20 hours 5 days a week. I do the majority of my kettlebell training fasted.

I did lose some body fat, which was a bonus, and there may well be some autophaphy benefits who knows, but metabolic flexibility is the biggest gain for me in eating/not eating in this kind of fashion.
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I heard mark sisson talk about this approach to metabolic flexibility. Being able to enjoy many kinds of whole real foods. But also be able to fast and sometimes be in ketosis, while other times running off carbs.
 
Gypsyplumber said:
I heard mark sisson talk about this approach to metabolic flexibility. Being able to enjoy many kinds of whole real foods. But also be able to fast and sometimes be in ketosis, while other times running off carbs.
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My n=1 anecdotal experience has been that metabolic flexibility is the biggest benefit of IF.

I don't get hangry anymore of I miss a meal, and if I skip both breakfast and lunch, it's not a big deal.

(although my workout intensity may be a little lackluster)
 
watchnerd said:
My n=1 anecdotal experience has been that metabolic flexibility is the biggest benefit of IF.

I don't get hangry anymore of I miss a meal, and if I skip both breakfast and lunch, it's not a big deal.

(although my workout intensity may be a little lackluster)
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let me add 1n so your n=2, specifically regarding the hanger which I used to experience, and I agree that the level of training intensity is lower on an extended fasted state. 16-18 hours is my maximum fasted stated, I don't remember going nearer to 20 hours of fasting

my n=1 is that I have learnt to control my emotional eating habbits. I *do* emo-eat rarely as a concious decision because life is just too complex for me to 100% ignore my love of eating :)

regarding metabolic flexibility: I *believe* this to be true.
 
watchnerd said:
Whereas any strength athlete I've talked to knows their strength goes into the toilet during even a cut (let alone a fast) and they'll admit they lose some muscle mass, too, in a deficit.
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My particular data point(s) as a strength athlete:

I live above but pretty close to the upper limit of my weight class, and dropping a few pounds during the week before a competition doesn't feel like it reduces my strength at all. Usually the opposite - I generally feel better during the week before a competition than at any other time, and I'll typically need to drop about 2 kg over the course of that week.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
My particular data point(s) as a strength athlete:

I live above but pretty close to the upper limit of my weight class, and dropping a few pounds during the week before a competition doesn't feel like it reduces my strength at all. Usually the opposite - I generally feel better during the week before a competition than at any other time, and I'll typically need to drop about 2 kg over the course of that week.

-S-
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What % of your bodyweight is that?

<5% usually isn't an issue.
 
watchnerd said:
The wrestlers I've talked to (who are arguably the masters of competition weight cutting) say it's the 10% range where things really hit a wall.
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10% - that means I'd be losing 15 lbs.

Hrungnir said:
More than 10% for same day weigh ins is really tough, but I’ve done 20% for day before. (160 to 130 within three weeks of competition, I think it was 8 pounds in the sauna)
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I can't imagine. I feel bad enough when I lose 2 or 3 lbs soaking in a hot bathtub. I know people do this but I'm glad I don't have to.

-S-
 
watchnerd said:
The empirical data on longevity and diet from Blue Zone regions doesn't match this hypothesis.

The 7th Day Adventist vegetarians in Loma Linda and the Okinawans are not eating like hunter gatherers.

Conversely, places with existing hunter gatherers still living and eating partially like they used to (e.g. !Kung people in the Kalahari) are not Blue Zone hot spots noted for extreme longevity.
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Steve Freides said:
All the above is what works for me. Not to change the subject completely, but I used to feel very dependent on regular feedings, you know, I'd get hungry and then I'd get cranky and my wife would tell me I needed to eat something - or just shut up. :)

I have since learned to embrace the "feast/famine cycles." I'm quite the social eater at times, e.g., my wife and I give three consecutive music lessons to a Mom, a colleague of my wife's and her two kids. Sometimes, they'll bring a couple of pizzas, and sometimes I'll put away half a pizza all by myself, and when it was my birthday a few months back, I did that plus I put away a pile of sweets, all on a Thursday evening because, well, because. If nothing else happens in the schedule, I tend to eat more on the weekends than I do during the week which, not for nothing, works nicely if you sometimes go to powerlifting competitions on the weekends. I often teach through what is most people's normal dinner hour, so the whole pile of things conspires to keep my weight good, my mood good, my lifting good - what's not to like? You just have to learn to "go with the flow" when it comes to eating, and then you try to manage the flow a bit without trying to over-regulate everything.

All this from, IMO, the Warrior Diet book some 20 years (maybe more) ago. Ori talks about how, sometimes when you're doing this kind of under- and over-eating, you'll all of a sudden have a big eating day, and you'll wake up weighing less, not more, the next day - this has happened to me many times.

-S-
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Perhaps it boils down to just eat when you are hungry but monitor that eating is not a coping mechanism for stress.
 
Gypsyplumber said:
Because it’s

Because it’s likely how we evolved and survived for millennia. At this point in time humans are the only animals on the planet who aren’t 100% sure what and how they should be eating lol. Kind of like how it’s been proven that the stress of heat and cold is great for our health, also the cycle of being able to survive times without food for certain periods of time is probably what we’re built for. The constant snacking and sugar (carb loading) is clearly not how we should be eating.
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The thing is that we are still evolving and developing things like lactose tolerance. The thumbs of young people are getting bigger and more dextrous from texting. In Korea, the ministry of education increased the size of desks 1.5 cm as the level of development has been so quick and diets (protein in particular) changed so much that average heights went up in a single generation. Our bodies are adapting to whatever environment there is and it doesn't take millennia.
 
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