Good stuff here thanks for sharing! Especially as regards to HR, your manner of using it to mind the stop signs has reinforced my understanding. Cheers and happy training!Hey gang. Lots to think about here, and there are always many variables. Here are some thoughts:
1) Climbing has a lot of pulling. It's hard to train a lot of pulling, then go climbing & expect to have a good climbing session. When rock/ice climbing is the goal, I usually focus on a balance in my training by putting a larger emphasis on pushing, and keeping pulling to a minimum (GTG/Easy Strength). When hiking/running/Obstacle course racing are the goals go ahead and pull often. This is why it's important to cycle your training. Always have an in-season, post-season, off-season, and pre-season mentality. Choose activities that allow rest for the next activity.
So, off-season & pre-season climbing, I might snatch a lot, deadlift, clean, swing, and work on my pull-up strength GTG style. In-season and post-season I might work on my jerks, push-ups, med-ball slams, pistols, box jumps etc.
With doing AXE often, I always take the first day of the week to a stop sign. I literally have 0 amount of time or rounds in my head. When my body says stop, I stop. I've slightly modified my stop signs to: 1) loss of power as judged by speed of movement, total time to complete reps, or WATTS if on a rower/ski erg. 2) Inability to pass a talk test OR maintain a 1:1 breath:rep ratio 3) HR hits high zone 4/low zone 5 during working sets or does not recover to zone 2 during rest periods 4) RPE >7. When some sessions go long, you might ask, "well, why not go heavier?" Answer: going heavier causes weight gain (for me), which isn't ideal in the climbing world at a body weight of 88kg+
The next day, I do 40% less time than the previous day. The next day I will do 20% less time than Day 1. Rest days are definitely helpful in this model. If you wanted less rest days, keeping time duration low and alternating movements (snatch/jerk) are not bad ideas.
In sticking to a "by the book only" mentality, I'm reminded of a Star Wars quote, "Only the Sith believe in absolutes." Everyone is different, so follow the "by the book" approach until you learn what's best for you, then add your slight modifications based on what you've learned about yourself.
Hope you find these thoughts valuable in the quest to find the best way to train yourself.
Derek,Hey gang. Lots to think about here, and there are always many variables. Here are some thoughts:
1) Climbing has a lot of pulling. It's hard to train a lot of pulling, then go climbing & expect to have a good climbing session. When rock/ice climbing is the goal, I usually focus on a balance in my training by putting a larger emphasis on pushing, and keeping pulling to a minimum (GTG/Easy Strength). When hiking/running/Obstacle course racing are the goals go ahead and pull often. This is why it's important to cycle your training. Always have an in-season, post-season, off-season, and pre-season mentality. Choose activities that allow rest for the next activity.
So, off-season & pre-season climbing, I might snatch a lot, deadlift, clean, swing, and work on my pull-up strength GTG style. In-season and post-season I might work on my jerks, push-ups, med-ball slams, pistols, box jumps etc.
With doing AXE often, I always take the first day of the week to a stop sign. I literally have 0 amount of time or rounds in my head. When my body says stop, I stop. I've slightly modified my stop signs to: 1) loss of power as judged by speed of movement, total time to complete reps, or WATTS if on a rower/ski erg. 2) Inability to pass a talk test OR maintain a 1:1 breath:rep ratio 3) HR hits high zone 4/low zone 5 during working sets or does not recover to zone 2 during rest periods 4) RPE >7. When some sessions go long, you might ask, "well, why not go heavier?" Answer: going heavier causes weight gain (for me), which isn't ideal in the climbing world at a body weight of 88kg+
The next day, I do 40% less time than the previous day. The next day I will do 20% less time than Day 1. Rest days are definitely helpful in this model. If you wanted less rest days, keeping time duration low and alternating movements (snatch/jerk) are not bad ideas.
In sticking to a "by the book only" mentality, I'm reminded of a Star Wars quote, "Only the Sith believe in absolutes." Everyone is different, so follow the "by the book" approach until you learn what's best for you, then add your slight modifications based on what you've learned about yourself.
Hope you find these thoughts valuable in the quest to find the best way to train yourself.
Got My Goal! Finished in 19:45....personal best by 1:54. Finished swings in 6:25, 1:35 rest then started the getups. 45 sec rest after each. Getups taking 11:45 sec...AXE definitely helping break the plateau...will decrease my rest by 1-sec next time for each so 24 seconds rest for getups, 2 seconds less in between 1:33 and rest 44 sec between the getups. That should be a 20 second improvement. Hopefully that will whittle my time down over the next 8 weeks to flirt with completing the Sinister quest!Derek,
I am working to complete Sinister…I am 50 yrs old and ~180 lbs. My best time with the Beast so far is 21 minutes. I recently completed your Speed Metal course which was awesome. So I recently started incorporating snatches to AXE in hopes of building to finish Sinister. This week I did an AXE snatch workout 5 reps alternating arms for 40 rounds with 24kg KB on Tuesday, rested Wednesday and then a Q&D 10/2 for 4 rounds w/40kg KB yesterday, and today an AXE 40 rounds with the Beast. Going to take 2 days off then do a Timeless S&S with the Beast but try to complete such to break 20 minutes and work to start the getups with the minute rest and shoot for 45 seconds between reps. Any suggestions on how to best use AXE and Q&D with snatches and swings to enable me to keep lowering my S&S times? Getting to Timeless Sinister has definitely transferred over to being able to jump right into high volume and heavy AXE training. Hoping the change in A+A type training helps me get over the finish line. Looking forward to any suggestions anyone has I should consider in programming my training. I completed my first Timeless Sinister on 31 December last year in 42 minutes. It took this long to flirt with breaking 20 minutes. Was hoping to complete by Dec 31st this year but am realizing that may not be realistic. I can finish the swings in 5 minutes But am too gassed to start the getups a minute later and sustain on the minute reps…Thanks for your time and consideration. I am so glad I found StrongFirst a year and a half ago. Never dreamed I’d become this functionally fit at my age!
By "easy sets", do you mark the moment when it gets hard?The descending RPE is pretty steady here, even though I've interrupted my training schedule with a Test Day for max Reps.
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This program currently feels like I could run it forever.
I will be returning to this protocol many times in the future.
Yeah, something like that.By "easy sets", do you mark the moment when it gets hard?
Interestingly, I'm not currently experiencing a a decrease in RPE at the outset. I speculate that timing my session in the afternoon when I feel more energetic. if I was practicing in the morning, I'd probably benefit hugely from a warmup.I ask because usually the first few sets don't feel that easy to me, and "easy sets" usually start happening after 5-10 minues.
I like this list a lot. The will-power point is an interesting one. This is usually the point where I really start to focus on recovery, fast-and-loose, and technique.There are a few things that I start noticing later in the session.
- Imperfect recovery between sets
- While my breath is still recovering between sets, my heart rate is nominally elevated.
- Using my will-power to enforce the bell coming up to shoulder height
- I am not pleasantly hurrying back to the bell for the next set.
- The breathing immediately after the set is nominally heavier.