Kettlebell AXE Training Thread

[Red_and_Black]

Everyday: 10 min OS Reset as per "Becoming Bulletproof" by Tim Anderson. This reset is also my movement prep for fitness sessions.

Mon/Thur: Kettlebell AXE Swings, by the book. (Currently doing 32kg 6/30, which is 46% bodyweight)

Tues/Fri: Zone 2, nasal breathing jog/run for 30 min.

Finishers: inspired by both Dan John's insistence on loaded carries and Tim Anderson's prescription for 10-minute challenges, I finish my four weekly fitness sessions with 10 minutes of various loaded carries with kettlebells or sandbags. This begins to level my heart rate.

@Jacobcutt, nice! For me I do think something like that with some heavy barbell lifts of dead, press, pull & squat variations scattered about maybe once weekly or fornightly and an occassional testing workout or event would be a program I could follow for life.

 

[Aziatik]

@Bauer that double espresso is a chainsaw! HR explosion....made the 24kg feel like a toy in the work that followed.

AXE 40kg 4s Double Espresso
8' 16 repeats 64 reps
Rest
Snatches 24kg 5 OTM
22 repeats 110 reps
Rest
2x24kg press 5s - 5 sets 25 reps

 

[Christophe]

How’s the general progress here? I’m in the 8th week now, progress so far has been very minimal. Started with 48 kg 24/4 (HR<85% max before next set but had skin tear) so had to switch to 6 reps and opened with 15/6. So far didn’t go beyond 17/6. I maybe toke my HR too high all the time (set LTHR at 90%, since it felt like I could still pass talk test without a problem). Experimenting now with setting the LTHR at 85% and see if that makes progress better. First 2 sessions with this limit were both 12/6.

 

[Bauer]

How’s the general progress here? I’m in the 8th week now, progress so far has been very minimal. Started with 48 kg 24/4 (HR<85% max before next set but had skin tear) so had to switch to 6 reps and opened with 15/6. So far didn’t go beyond 17/6. I maybe toke my HR too high all the time (set LTHR at 90%, since it felt like I could still pass talk test without a problem). Experimenting now with setting the LTHR at 85% and see if that makes progress better. First 2 sessions with this limit were both 12/6.

Pavel mentions in the book that progress will be slower with sets of 6. Given that you are using a pretty heavy weight this might slow it down further. I remember men training for Sinister reporting that progress was slower than expected.

 

[Aziatik]

How’s the general progress here? I’m in the 8th week now, progress so far has been very minimal. Started with 48 kg 24/4 (HR<85% max before next set but had skin tear) so had to switch to 6 reps and opened with 15/6. So far didn’t go beyond 17/6. I maybe toke my HR too high all the time (set LTHR at 90%, since it felt like I could still pass talk test without a problem). Experimenting now with setting the LTHR at 85% and see if that makes progress better. First 2 sessions with this limit were both 12/6.

Sounds like yes, hr too high... My stop sign is once my hr peaks to my lactate threshold... First time that number gets broken, stop... You were pushing too far, there's no way you could be repeating at full power with a starting hr at 85%. Very impressive workloads though!

 

[Adachi]

I just went back into my log and added a new sheet for AXE training.

I just took a stab at how to rate difficulty.

Nominal Difficulty is = (Reps*Sets*RPE)
Weighted Difficulty is = (Nominal Difficulty)/(# of easy sets))​

We'll see how useful this chart is. I'll be interested in what metrics I can track effectively. there's not much to this program.

I put in an estimated Number of easy sets for the initial 18-set portion of training cuz I wasn't tracking that till I arbitrarily mentioned it to myself on my first 30-set day.

 

[Kyle P]

Hi everyone. I would like to add some abbreviated barbell training to my schedule and am looking for adivce on programming.

My main goal is rock climbing and eventually mountaineering advancement.
My current training:
Rock Climbing (gym) and rucking 2-4 days per week
AXE training- 2 handed swings, 40KG, 20-30 sets, 2-3 times per week
GTG pull ups and ab wheel, 5 days per week

I don't have a ton of time and my goals are modest. Just to increase general stregth and injury resistance.

My plan for lifting
Day 1: Bench, Weighted pull ups, Deep Back or Front Squat 3 sets of 4-6 reps
Day 2: Dumbebell Bench Press, Weighted Chins, Deadlift 3 sets of 4-6 reps
Progression: add weight each week, setting a PR on week 4, then backing down to my week 2 weight and progressing agian to a new PR.

Any glaring red flags? Any advice on how to prgress weight after the "beginner" phase? I haven't done any barbell work for the last 6 months or so.

 

[sckiely]

New week, first week, as mentioned, both sessions at 20min 6/arm with 40kg very cruisy. HR stayed pretty low, in MAF HR zones.

So first session this week I set the timer for 30min. Again, managed all sets with HR barely reaching 140bpm and easy talk test.

Guess I just go up to 44kg next session and see how that goes.

 

[Aziatik]

Any glaring red flags?

Might be a bit heavy on the lats, would do weighted pulls and chins together in the same session or alternate them weekly. I know you have rock climbing focus, ya still gotta recover. Axe is also demanding of the lats. Gotta roll em out often.

Also, consider to go with an overhead press session in place of one of the bench press.

If you want and can, save yourself a training day and stick the presses on to your workout after axe. That leaves you with one day of squats deadlifts and weighted pull/Chinups. Probably finishing with max time dead hangs on a variety of bars with various grips would help you a lot. Good stuff! I'm on a similar track and it feels to be fantastic GPP.

 

[Red_and_Black]

First session of week 3 today, doing 3 session a week and 2 x easy runs of 30-40 minutes.

4 x one hand swings (alternate sides) OTM for 40 minutes, 28kg.

Did a few with 6 just to feel how it was. All felt easy.

Current plan is 6 more weeks of this going up 4 minutes a week until I hit 60 mins in the last week. After that I have 3 weeks away so I'll have a week off and then do 2 weeks of a bodyweight AXE version before re-starting KB swings AXE when get home.

 

[Bauer]

Hi everyone. I would like to add some abbreviated barbell training to my schedule and am looking for adivce on programming.

My main goal is rock climbing and eventually mountaineering advancement.
My current training:
Rock Climbing (gym) and rucking 2-4 days per week
AXE training- 2 handed swings, 40KG, 20-30 sets, 2-3 times per week
GTG pull ups and ab wheel, 5 days per week

I don't have a ton of time and my goals are modest. Just to increase general stregth and injury resistance.

My plan for lifting
Day 1: Bench, Weighted pull ups, Deep Back or Front Squat 3 sets of 4-6 reps
Day 2: Dumbebell Bench Press, Weighted Chins, Deadlift 3 sets of 4-6 reps
Progression: add weight each week, setting a PR on week 4, then backing down to my week 2 weight and progressing agian to a new PR.

Any glaring red flags? Any advice on how to prgress weight after the "beginner" phase? I haven't done any barbell work for the last 6 months or so.

You might be interested in how @Derek Toshner structures his weekly training. Here is a preview:

Train - Adventure Fit

Fortune favors the prepared

adventurefit.us

Buying one of the plans might be a good option here (I haven't, but I am interested in it). Attending All Terrain Conditioning might be worth a shot, too.

I think you plan largely depends on you knowing your priorities. If you have a tough week, what gives?

If you recover well, I think reading Tactical Barbell + Tactical Barbell Conditioning will help you finding a good weekly structure. I would just insert Rucking and AXE into the templates from TBC. "Fighter Template" + "Black Protocol: Professional" (or Zulu/Operator + Black) could work well, inserting AXE for "High Intensity Conditioning" and Rucking for "Endurance".

 

[mvikred]

Yesterday I bumped up my reps to 6 yesterday and ended up with 16 sets before I hit the stop signs. Will continue donig 16 sets for a few more session. But it got me thinking if

1. There were any downsides to doing AXE daily? if you recover?
2. What would be the signs of under recovery if you do it on consecutive days? - not hitting the same number of sets or hitting the same sets with higher RPE?
3. Has anyone been doing AXE sessions on consecutive days?

 

[Bauer]

1. There were any downsides to doing AXE daily? if you recover?
2. What would be the signs of under recovery if you do it on consecutive days? - not hitting the same number of sets or hitting the same sets with higher RPE?

I think being extra careful with the stop signs would be the first principle. Not sure about potential downside, apart from preventing you from training in other ways (opportunity costs for different adaptations).

Same but different might apply as well:
* Programming: Make the extra day easier (50-80% of volume or weight) (Pavel's recommendation)
* Programming: Try something different (like 1 rep every 20 seconds), but only go to RPE of 6.5 or so.
* Exercise Selection: 2H Swings; Jerks; High Pulls; etc.

3. Has anyone been doing AXE sessions on consecutive days?

@Harald Motz has.

 

[George Vrotsos]

Yesterday I bumped up my reps to 6 yesterday and ended up with 16 sets before I hit the stop signs. Will continue donig 16 sets for a few more session. But it got me thinking if

1. There were any downsides to doing AXE daily? if you recover?
2. What would be the signs of under recovery if you do it on consecutive days? - not hitting the same number of sets or hitting the same sets with higher RPE?
3. Has anyone been doing AXE sessions on consecutive days?

1. Speculating but my guess is the downside to daily AXE and being able to recover from it daily would mean the load isn't heavy enough.
3. I do back to back AXE days but different exercises. Week is usually Snatch, Jerk, Off, Snatch, Jerk, Off, Off. It works well because the movements work completely different muscle groups. Pavel briefly mentioned Jerks as an option to combine with swings/snatches in the book but the combo feels amazing.

 

[mightstone2k]

@mvikred I’m running the Novocaine template with both KBSF’s LCCJ plan and AXE swings (referring to the book), but without LISS days. If I’m feeling recovered, I will do those on back-to-back days. Since both programs are a subspecies of AXE (the training umbrella), I’d say it counts.

I enjoy it. As @George Vrotsos said, it works different muscle groups, so it’s feasible. Whether I can go on consecutive days really comes down to everything else in my life that may affect recovery. I don’t think I’d try it I’m a more rigid program. Novocaine’s flexibility means I don’t feel obligated to train on consecutive days if I’m not feeling it.

 

[mvikred]

Snatch, Jerk, Off, Snatch, Jerk, Off, Off

On a lighter note….this sounds wrong

But I do see the other comments as well. One way I’ve overcome this is use specialised variety by adding snatches the other day or 2h swings.

 

[Aziatik]

SE Squats 225x3 resting 1' between sets - 21 repeats 63 reps
Max rep strict pull ups 3 series
14/9/8

 

[Adachi]

Max rep strict pull ups 3 series
14/9/8

been thinking of things like pull-ups, but borrowing an idea from Fabio's programming to do fractions of your RM

if you do 14 reps max then run sets of 5,7,9. (1/3 RM, 1/2 RM, 2/3 RM) maybe a little more rest, like 90 or 120-second repeats...

I wonder about utilizing that rep format to see how much more total volume can get completed.

 

[Aziatik]

been thinking of things like pull-ups, but borrowing an idea from Fabio's programming to do fractions of your RM

if you do 14 reps max then run sets of 5,7,9. (1/3 RM, 1/2 RM, 2/3 RM) maybe a little more rest, like 90 or 120-second repeats...

I wonder about utilizing that rep format to see how much more total volume can get completed.

Yes! I wanted to see how many strict I have right now and so went for a max set then rested 2 to 3' and repeated. Was interesting there's such a big drop off between max reps in my 1st and 2nd set. Was short on time for this portion of the workout and chose this route accordingly.

Typically I'll go weighted pulls and chins, sometimes alternating chins and pulls otm with just bodyweight 3 to 4 reps. What you mention sounds good too will try it. It's ascending ladders?

 

[Adachi]

What you mention sounds good too will try it. It's ascending ladders?

Yeah - i reversed engineered it from Fabio's programming after seeing it over and over.

in one program it was ...

Light day = 1/3 RM Repeated
Medium day = 1/3 RM , 1/2 RM , repeated
Heavy day = 1/3 RM , 1/2 RM , 2/3 RM repeated