Kettlebell AXE Training Thread

[James1520]

Hey Everyone,

Just looking for some clarification on the “Double Expresso” option for the occasional acid bath recommended in AXE.

My understanding of it is; That you would perform a set every 30sec at whatever rep scheme your at (2-4-6) until you hit one of the first three stop signs (Speed, Tempo or Technique decline) and then actively recover until your heart rate is 60%-65% of max/you could make a long speech and then do another round of sets/reps every 30sec until you hit one of the first three stop signs again?

 

[James1520]

Just finished first week incorporating AXE swings. Did two sessions, Monday and Friday.

As planned, did 36kg (40% bodyweight) H2H swings. First session hit the muscle congestion stop sign in my low back at 15 reps. Not surprised that was the limiting factor. I’m pairing this with a Barbell C&P program (GN’s Easy Muscle) so lots of hinging with high weights is putting a lot of focus on my posterior chain. My low back has been the weakest link there, so this is a block where I’m really focusing on using my glutes like I know I should.

2nd session at 15 reps felt good, looking forward to another week at this level. Definitely felt some soreness the first couple of days after switching programs but by the end of the week it definitely feels like a really solid practice without pushing me too hard.

Do you follow GN’s P3 protocols or have you looked into Dr. Stu McGills “The Big-3” exercises to strengthen your core/prevent low back pain?

Personally I follow Geoff’s 5-min warm-up (which includes one of McGills recommendations: Dead Bugs) that came out in Maximorum and have found it has really helped me to brace my core during lifts - not sure if it’s just activation prior to lifting or a better mind-body awareness, maybe both‍.

 

[Aziatik]

First session hit the muscle congestion stop sign in my low back at 15 reps.

After running into the same 2x I'm gonna mirror your thinking and hover around 20 repeats until the weak links strengthen up. There's no pain or anything, it just feels like the QL and hip fexors have reached the drop off point.

I'll probably use the optional 3rd weekly ballistic set (when recovery permits) to run a+a snatch, 2xkb C&P or iron cardio, maybe even a compressed time S&S, to challenge the hr and breathing while my body adapts to the heavy Axe swings.

 

[ShawnM]

Hey Everyone,

Just looking for some clarification on the “Double Expresso” option for the occasional acid bath recommended in AXE.

My understanding of it is; That you would perform a set every 30sec at whatever rep scheme your at (2-4-6) until you hit one of the first three stop signs (Speed, Tempo or Technique decline) and then actively recover until your heart rate is 60%-65% of max/you could make a long speech and then do another round of sets/reps every 30sec until you hit one of the first three stop signs again?

Yes, that's correct. I just re-read that section and you do your regular training except every 30 seconds until you fail 1 of the first three stop signs. Every other week is good for this. I have done something similar in the past, but I did 5 1HS every 30 seconds for 5 minutes, rest five minutes and then do another round. I've completed five rounds of this, but I did this once a month. It really shocks the system.

 

[Dann]

I have been experimenting with form and foot placement to try and put as much of the load as I can into my hips.

Low back discomfort has come and gone and correlates slightly with the weather.

May or may not be your case. I use to swing with only the slightest knee bend because I thought that was the only way. Somewhere on this site I saw or read that your anatomy counts for something. By letting myself bend my knees a bit more in the hinge everything came together for myself, more hip power and less back extention fatigue/ soreness and more soreness from the glutes. Head position matters as well, generally I believe it's to fix your eyes on something 8-10ish feet away. But some of us require to keep the head in line with the back and not allow any neck extension.

 

[James1520]

Yes, that's correct. I just re-read that section and you do your regular training except every 30 seconds until you fail 1 of the first three stop signs. Every other week is good for this. I have done something similar in the past, but I did 5 1HS every 30 seconds for 5 minutes, rest five minutes and then do another round. I've completed five rounds of this, but I did this once a month. It really shocks the system.

Awesome, thanks for confirming ShawnM!

 

[Conor]

I have been experimenting with form and foot placement to try and put as much of the load as I can into my hips.

Low back discomfort has come and gone and correlates slightly with the weather.

I’m definitely in a period where it’s not bothering me, but I hurt it a while back and I’m more cognizant of it when the fatigue sets in.

After running into the same 2x I'm gonna mirror your thinking and hover around 20 repeats until the weak links strengthen up. There's no pain or anything, it just feels like the QL and hip fexors have reached the drop off point.

I'll probably use the optional 3rd weekly ballistic set (when recovery permits) to run a+a snatch, 2xkb C&P or iron cardio, maybe even a compressed time S&S, to challenge the hr and breathing while my body adapts to the heavy Axe swings.

Given that my current focus is the Easy Muscle program, I’m very much viewing AXE as my conditioning work 2-3 days a week and programming in plenty of rest. I don’t have any goal for AXE other than building up some better capacity so when I have my recert testing I never have to worry about hitting the snatch test. I really like it so far as a serious practice, but one that gives more than it takes.

Do you follow GN’s P3 protocols or have you looked into Dr. Stu McGills “The Big-3” exercises to strengthen your core/prevent low back pain?

Personally I follow Geoff’s 5-min warm-up (which includes one of McGills recommendations: Dead Bugs) that came out in Maximorum and have found it has really helped me to brace my core during lifts - not sure if it’s just activation prior to lifting or a better mind-body awareness, maybe both‍.

I do not. I have worked through both McGill’s Big 3 and GN’s P3 protocol, and neither of them seemed to do the trick for me. I incorporated Heavy Club training in a couple blocks ago and that pretty much eliminated any back pain since then. I just stay very aware of my low back, especially since I’m doing dozens of heavy cleans and heavy swings 5X per week. No pain now, and I’m gonna keep it that way.

 

[Bauer]

Three setups that have worked well with AXE type training so far for me, although with LCCJs:

(1)
3x per week with block training:
Alternating two-week blocks of LCCJ and a C&P plan (3x per week, focus on second week, 1-3x running or cycling per week)

(2)
2x per week LCCJ + 4x Easy Strength (Presses, lighter Squats, Rows) + 2x running or cycling

(3)
2x per week LCCJ + 4-6x GTG One-Arm Pushup practice + 2x running or step ups

Currently, I really like the last one. It allows me to adjust my schedule depending on whatever goes on in my life.

 

[KCCollins]

Ok.
So we were told not to drop the interval on the quick and the dead. However, if we did QD at 30second intervals, alternating swings and pushups and rest, wouldn’t this be similar to axe?

8-10 swings, 30 seconds rest, 10 explosive pushups, 30 seconds rest?

 

[renegadenate]

Ok.
So we were told not to drop the interval on the quick and the dead. However, if we did QD at 30second intervals, alternating swings and pushups and rest, wouldn’t this be similar to axe?

8-10 swings, 30 seconds rest, 10 explosive pushups, 30 seconds rest?

If you're doing 30-second intervals, then the reps are reduced to 5 on Q&D.

Also, you wouldn't be alternating Swings and Pushups every 30 seconds. You finish one series (1-Arm Swings), rest 1:20 and then do the nezt series (pushups).

If using 10 reps, you still complete one series before starting the other.

Or you do the "Victor" (015) approach where you do 1-Arm Swings at :00, Pushups at 1:30, your next set of 1-Arm Swings at 3:00, Pushups at 4:30, etc. for 30 minutes.

 

[Adachi]

So we were told not to drop the interval on the quick and the dead.

That's right.

if we did QD at 30second intervals, alternating swings and pushups and rest, wouldn’t this be similar to axe?

I don't think I understand this proposition.
If you change the recipe enough, it's no longer the same dish.

8-10 swings, 30 seconds rest, 10 explosive pushups, 30 seconds rest?

This would be more like plan 015.

0:00 - 10 swings, rest.
1:30 - 10 pushups, rest.
3:00 - 10 swings, rest.
4:30 - 10 pushups, rest.
Repeat

---

But the loading you seem to describe is super dense with only 30 seconds of rest.

0:00 - 10 swings, rest (30s)
0:50 - 10 pushups, rest (30s)
1:30 - 10 swings, rest (30s)
2:20 - 10 pushups, rest (30s)
Repeat

So maybe it's a double espresso kind of session.

---

Due to systemic/global taxation I wouldn't necessarily interject other exercises without extending the rest periods to accommodate. Others may be able to fit it in.

Also, what @renegadenate says.

 

[KCCollins]

If I wasn’t clear.
0:00 8-10 swings.
0:15 rest
0:30 8-10 explosive pushups
0:45 rest
Restart. Go on for 20-40 minutes.

This sounds like extended double espresso yes, but with a second exercise. At these intervals, it seems like the 15:15 Viking warrior conditioning but rotating in pushups.

 

[Conor]

If I wasn’t clear.
0:00 8-10 swings.
0:15 rest
0:30 8-10 explosive pushups
0:45 rest
Restart. Go on for 20-40 minutes.

This sounds like extended double espresso yes, but with a second exercise. At these intervals, it seems like the 15:15 Viking warrior conditioning but rotating in pushups.

I personally don’t think this sounds at like AXE, or AGT in general. The rest interval is far too short for the the recharge of the CP system to keep it alactic. I agree it sounds more like the Viking Warrior Conditioning or maybe Tabata than AXE.

If you wanted to alternate the exercises but do the workout OTM, that might be closer, but at 8-10 reps you’d be into glycolytic territory. Sounds to me more HIIT than AGT.

*edited for typo

 

[Aziatik]

Crossover symmetry shoulder and glute activation then -
AXE Swings 40kg low rep count to 30 minutes today. Felt the drop off in explosion and called it. Grip and low back are catching up! Went back to using victory 3 finger gymnastics grips, makes the handle a bit larger but protects me from ripping. As a deep tissue therapist protecting my hands is key.

Rested a bit then grabbed a 32kg and went C&P then snatch left hand then right with no rest between hands and a cool down to 120ish bmp between repeats. Did 10 rounds of that for 20 reps per hand. 32 is my max press right now so repping it out has been fun....!

 

[Bauer]

If I wasn’t clear.
0:00 8-10 swings.
0:15 rest
0:30 8-10 explosive pushups
0:45 rest
Restart. Go on for 20-40 minutes.

This sounds like extended double espresso yes, but with a second exercise. At these intervals, it seems like the 15:15 Viking warrior conditioning but rotating in pushups.

@renegadenate proposed the following protocol:

@Pavel how would you program the above?

Perform 3-5 reps of a jump within the first 30 seconds, and then 5 pushups at the start of the next 30 seconds and repeat each minute/round like this:

:00 - Jump x 5
:30 - Pushup x 5
1:00 - Jump x 5
1:30 - Pushup x 5
etc.

Or alternate each exercise every minute on the minute (EMOM):

:00 - Jump x 5-10
1:00 - Pushup x 5-10
2:00 - Jump x 5-10
3:00 - Pushup x 5-10
Etc.

Here is Pavel's answer.

Nate, keep in mind that your legs have more endurance. Start out with a relatively easier pushup load. Try your option #1 but with only 3 pushups.

In any case, you will have to keep tweaking the load parameters when you are doing 2 exercises.

Elsewhere he recommended to train both exercises separately for quite some time, to learn more about specific fatigue signs, etc.
Personally I would start with a set every :45.

 

[Aziatik]

If you wanted to alternate the exercises but do the workout OTM, that might be closer, but at 8-10 reps you’d be into glycolytic territory. Sounds to me more HIIT than AGT.

Sooner! 5 to 6 minutes and you'd be in the burn, definitely a hiit workout. What then is the double espresso protocol, really?

Edit, I see it... Repeats on the :30 in place of the 1'.

 

[Red_and_Black]

Finally read the book, and after having a week off from finishing Easy Strength I did my first AXE session today.

I did play around with H2H swings during the warm-up but didn't feel 100% confident with them so stuck to one hand swings alternating sides.

Started a OTM timer for 30 minutes and did 4 swings OTM with a single 28kg KB. I thought I'd pay attention to the stop signs, but it felt good all the way through so completed the 30 mins, which is 120 swings. Each set took about 9-10 seconds, so left me 50-51 seconds active rest.

I'll stick with the 30 minutes and slowly creep up 2 minutes at a time until I get to 40 minutes, then drop back to 30 minutes and do 6 swings OTM until I hit 40 minutes again, then drop back to 4 OTM with the 32kg which is just over 40% of my bodyweight and work through it again.

I'm training 3 times a week (Tues, Thurs, Sat) and running 7.5km home from work easy Z2 Wed and Fri, with total rest Sun and Mon.

After a month or so I'll add in some hard sessions every fortnight, and after a good while I might drop an AXE session or 2 and do Q&D instead.

Great program, looking forward to the training and results! Thank you Pavel and all at SF.

 

[Alexander Halford]

Thought I'd join the party and share some insights from my ongoing AXE, finished 9th session today. Here's the graph:


Except of session number 7 where I had to go down a notch due to sickness, it's pretty much planned progression/waving. 36kg is 40% of my BW, 40kg is 45%, so I took this rotation between weights as acceptable. I can comfortably snatch the mentioned weights, so 40 was planned as main runner for the most. H2HS is the move as prescribed. Objective is to be religious about stop signs and perform each swing violently, like battering ram, and fast, like David's sling.
It took some time to this objective being deemed satisfactory, stop signs took some concentration work - to have the check mark on all required at the split second when the bell is up; sufficient power production took even more time, and that's something I'd like to share my thoughts about. 1. Hand to hand passing was not automated enough, and I see the same effect with some other people (vids they post on IG) - the concentration used for H2H passing robs the concentration on actual swing performance, along with some technique problems, mostly unpacking the shoulder too much, "reaching" for the bell on the switch. 2. Weight is too heavy, or didn't perform specific weight/exercise for too long, hence adaptation period. 3. Not fast & explosive enough; that's subjective for everyone, but I once achieved subjective feeling of being fast & explosive to the degree I demanded from myself, I could also saw it on my HR graphs, averages upped from 130s to 145-150s, and max from 140-145 to 160-165, so was on vids I shoot, more visible muscle contractions, and angrier face. Only 3 last sessions are matching this criteria, so it took 6 sessions to fully dial in, especially power-vise. Heart on a sleeve, I didn't run proper swing cycle for at least 3 years, and all this process is very educating.
@Pavel, thanks again for the brilliant book and your guidance here, which is highly appreciated, моя благодарность безгранична.

 

[Aziatik]

Rocking steady with the SE Squats and axe.

SE Squats 225x3s 13 repeats 39 reps
Pull/chin up 5s 8 repeats 40 reps

 

[Pavel]

@Pavel, thanks again for the brilliant book and your guidance here, which is highly appreciated, моя благодарность безгранична.

Thank you, Alexander!