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Kettlebell S&S avoiding the glycolytic system

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CMarker said:
Eventually, like the fighter pull-up program, I could add a rep to each round.
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Can you explain this a little bit sir? Do you mean that your sessions with other movements began to look like the fighter pullup program when using the HR monitor?
 
Anna C said:
For 10 swings without going over MAF HR, this will probably be a smaller bell. This might meet a different conditioning objective, but you can expect less power and strength development in this case.

Just pointing out that either one is OK, but they may not be the same.
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I agree with that.
But I'm just learning and I don't really know how good my conditioning has to be to reach the Simple standard (just the practice, not the actual test) and not going over MAF HR. I wonder if I'd be able to pratice with 32 kg below the MAF HR.
Currrently I'm using a 28 kg bell. Applying what I've learnt in this conversation, I did S&S yesterday and it took me 24:30.
11:20 for the swings
13:10 for the TGU's
I used the talk test. It went OK, I mean, it felt OK.
Next time I'll pay attention to my last sets and adjust rest as needed.

Regards.
 
Hello,

Kozushi said:
What is the importance of glycose?
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I assume we are not talking about someone who is on ketonic diet.

Glucose, is what first provides energy to your muscle. Thanks to a process called glycolysis, glucose is converted in ATP, which is energy for muscles.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I hope this isn't viewed as high jacking this thread:

Ok so if I understand the original article correctly, I have been training wrong.

I have been using a 5x5 scheme and I have been doing it circuit style.

So I would do for example:

Cleans 5- left, leave it in rack on 5th rep then do 5 front squats. Put the bell down, let me heart rate return to normal and then do the same on the right. Repeat 5 times each side.

I am wondering now if I should just do cleans on one side, rest, cleans on right rest. Repeat 5 times. Then clean and rack for left side front squat, rest, rack right side, rest. Repeat for 5 sets of 5.

Thoughts?
 
@Mark Kidd, I would say you are interpreting this correctly. A 15-20 sec work set and then full recovery would tend to be less glycolytic (more alactic + aerobic) than a 30-40 sec work set or other circuit, which your 5 cleans + 5 squats probably is.

However... squats are glycolytic... no way around it. I say this because I actually went to the lab and got tested with the kettlebells one time. My warm-up (basically S&S warm-up) raised my blood lactate levels, before I ever got started with swings. From my understanding, squats are a strength move that uses fast twitch fibers, fast twitch are glycolytic, glycolysis produces lactate. This showed up in the La measure.

So it's not an exact science by any stretch. But generally, yes a short/hard/explosive work set, then plenty of recovery, will be more "anti-glycolytic."
 
I don't know how to do that @ thing

Thanks for the reply. Does that mean I am screwing things up if I squat twice a week??

Thanks.
 
Type the @ and then start to type a name... the name will pop up, then select it

Mark Kidd said:
Does that mean I am screwing things up if I squat twice a week??
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No, not at all... squats are good. Glycolysis is neither good nor bad, it just is another way your body fuels its efforts. The body can use the lactate, buffer the acidity, and do its thing, no worries. But for repetitive conditioning work like long repeats of short sets of swings, snatches, cleans, and the like, it's best to stay out of a state of ongoing glycolysis because it is is keeping your muscles in a state of acidity which can be excessively stressful and counterproductive.

Hope that makes sense.
 
Anna C said:
Type the @ and then start to type a name... the name will pop up, then select it



No, not at all... squats are good. Glycolysis is neither good nor bad, it just is another way your body fuels its efforts. The body can use the lactate, buffer the acidity, and do its thing, no worries. But for repetitive conditioning work like long repeats of short sets of swings, snatches, cleans, and the like, it's best to stay out of a state of ongoing glycolysis because it is is keeping your muscles in a state of acidity which can be excessively stressful and counterproductive.

Hope that makes sense.
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Perfect sense. Thanks!
 
Hello,

@Mark Kidd
It dépends on how your body reacts, but to some extents, it is not bad to train once or twice a week with other energy systems. It can even be useful:

Anna C said:
short/hard/explosive work set, then plenty of recovery, will be more "anti-glycolytic
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If you are late and if you are sprinting to get your bus for example ;)

Your body will learn how to manage it, without decrease your performances on other training methods.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Mark Kidd said:
But couldn't one argue that wrecking mitochondria intentionally/carelessly is a bad thing?
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Since mitochondria are certainly a good thing, it follows that harming them is bad, yes. So the question is, how much acidity caused by glycolysis will harm them? The body is certainly made to handle a certain amount with no problems. How much is too much probably varies a LOT from one person to the next, depending on variables such as aerobic condition, muscle mass and fiber types, overall health, hormones, other stressors in life, and genetics. Then there are the variables in the exercise itself: duration, intensity, rest periods, etc. So in general, if you're going to repeat something day after day (like S&S swings), it's best to do so in a manner that stays on the safer end of this spectrum. Or if you're choosing what exercises to do, it's best to spend time doing LSD aerobics in a MAF-type HR (low intensity) and high intensity power work like swings and snatches in shorts sets with plenty of rest. Pure strength work follows its own rules, but again, short sets, plenty of rest are good (depending on your objectives). In contrast: a 5-min snatch test every day, or a CF metcon every day, or a maxed-out spin class every day, or a HIIT class every day... you get the idea... excessively training the anerobic glycolytic energy pathways, potentially leading to adverse effects on mitochondria, greater injury potential, excessive stress, and overtraining. Best to do this type of training occasionally, or when peaking for an event.
 
Anna C said:
Since mitochondria are certainly a good thing, it follows that harming them is bad, yes. So the question is, how much acidity caused by glycolysis will harm them? The body is certainly made to handle a certain amount with no problems. How much is too much probably varies a LOT from one person to the next, depending on variables such as aerobic condition, muscle mass and fiber types, overall health, hormones, other stressors in life, and genetics. Then there are the variables in the exercise itself: duration, intensity, rest periods, etc. So in general, if you're going to repeat something day after day (like S&S swings), it's best to do so in a manner that stays on the safer end of this spectrum. Or if you're choosing what exercises to do, it's best to spend time doing LSD aerobics in a MAF-type HR (low intensity) and high intensity power work like swings and snatches in shorts sets with plenty of rest. Pure strength work follows its own rules, but again, short sets, plenty of rest are good (depending on your objectives). In contrast: a 5-min snatch test every day, or a CF metcon every day, or a maxed-out spin class every day, or a HIIT class every day... you get the idea... excessively training the anerobic glycolytic energy pathways, potentially leading to adverse effects on mitochondria, greater injury potential, excessive stress, and overtraining. Best to do this type of training occasionally, or when peaking for an event.
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Gotcha
 
Anna C said:
Since mitochondria are certainly a good thing, it follows that harming them is bad, yes. So the question is, how much acidity caused by glycolysis will harm them? The body is certainly made to handle a certain amount with no problems. How much is too much probably varies a LOT from one person to the next, depending on variables such as aerobic condition, muscle mass and fiber types, overall health, hormones, other stressors in life, and genetics. Then there are the variables in the exercise itself: duration, intensity, rest periods, etc. So in general, if you're going to repeat something day after day (like S&S swings), it's best to do so in a manner that stays on the safer end of this spectrum. Or if you're choosing what exercises to do, it's best to spend time doing LSD aerobics in a MAF-type HR (low intensity) and high intensity power work like swings and snatches in shorts sets with plenty of rest. Pure strength work follows its own rules, but again, short sets, plenty of rest are good (depending on your objectives). In contrast: a 5-min snatch test every day, or a CF metcon every day, or a maxed-out spin class every day, or a HIIT class every day... you get the idea... excessively training the anerobic glycolytic energy pathways, potentially leading to adverse effects on mitochondria, greater injury potential, excessive stress, and overtraining. Best to do this type of training occasionally, or when peaking for an event.
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Well said Anna
 
@Mark Kidd

Besides the issues addressed with mitochondria and ability to maintain high training frequency there is also the stress placed on the adrenal glands and "fight or flight" response that HIIT or other similar glocolytic protocols can induce.

If you're training more than 3 times per week, pushing hard into glycolitic work each time is not a great idea. It's a reliable pathway to burn-out and overtraining.
 
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