Kettlebell S&S avoiding the glycolytic system

[candelas]

Hello everybody,

I'll try to put it shortly.
According to
The Hybrid Power Conditioning Program
The Hybrid Power Conditioning Program

you need to work for 15-20 seconds and rest before going glycolytic.

In SIMPLE & SINISTER PROGRESSION TACTIC
Simple & Sinister Progression Tactic
Pavel states
" You must stop each set of a high power exercise at the point where the alactic tank is starting to run low but anaerobic glycolysis has not had the time to rev up all to full speed—typically at ten to twenty seconds."

But in S&S, to do 10+10 1 arm swings takes me more than 30 seconds. Am I not going glycolytic already?
Should I do less swings?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Matts]

Rest after every set of 10...recover....then do the next set of 10...repeat until finished. No 10+10 without a rest in between.

 

[Steve Freides]

10 Left, rest, 10 Right, rest, and so on.

-S-

 

[D-Rock]

Thank you for reminding me of this article! I just wanted to point out 2 amazing quotes from the The Hybrid Power Conditioning Program article.

"The goal of conditioning is to increase your body's efficiency to the point where work that was glycolytic becomes aerobic."

A very concise, brilliant summary of the goal!! Not just more and more intensity, but the same work with a different energy system.

"ELITE ATHLETES SEEM TO SPEND A LOT OF TIME DOING GLYCOLYTIC TRAINING, BUT AT THEIR LEVEL, THE WORK IS MOSTLY AEROBIC."

Probably an overlooked answer to "why did it work for him, but not me?". When emulating the greats, all we see is intensity and hard work, when we possibly perceive their personal effort incorrectly.

 

[pet']

Hello,

@candelas
This article may interest you (about S&S progression tactics)
Simple & Sinister Progression Tactic

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[candelas]

First of all thanks a lot for your replies.
I thought the S&S protocol called for 10 L+10 R! So that's only for the test day.
OK, then I'll do 10 L rest 10 R, rest, and so on. That makes sense.

@pet'
I pointed out to the same article in my question. Thanks anyway ;-)

Kind Regards

 

[Anna C]

I thought the S&S protocol called for 10 L+10 R! So that's only for the test day.

Nope, not even on test day. On test days, 10R, ~15 sec rest, 10L, ~15 sec rest, etc. Basically, do 10 swings on the :30 so you end up with 100 in 5 min. So, always only 10 swings at a time for S&S.

 

[candelas]

@Anna C
Thanks a lot. Finally I got it!

 

[candelas]

And how about the TGU? Does it follow the same pattern?
1 Left, rest, 1 Right, and so on?

 

[pet']

Hello,

@candelas
Depending.

On Simple standard, you are supposed to go "fast" (fast as a SF standard) even if you do 1R 1L... When simply training, I take some "long" rest between my R and L.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Anna C]

Yes. So approximately 30 sec for the getup (R), 30 sec rest, 30 sec for the get-up (L), 30 sec rest... repeat 4 more times.

Here's my video of One Complete S&S Session that you might find helpful.

In the video, it's to the time standards (5 min for swings, 1 min rest, 10 min for get-ups).

In daily practice, I might take 8-15 min for swings, 1-3 min rest, 8-18 min for get-ups. Just depends on the day, the weight, etc.

 

[CMarker]

Great conversation.

Thank you for reminding me of this article! I just wanted to point out 2 amazing quotes from the The Hybrid Power Conditioning Program article.

"The goal of conditioning is to increase your body's efficiency to the point where work that was glycolytic becomes aerobic."

A very concise, brilliant summary of the goal!! Not just more and more intensity, but the same work with a different energy system.

"ELITE ATHLETES SEEM TO SPEND A LOT OF TIME DOING GLYCOLYTIC TRAINING, BUT AT THEIR LEVEL, THE WORK IS MOSTLY AEROBIC."

Probably an overlooked answer to "why did it work for him, but not me?". When emulating the greats, all we see is intensity and hard work, when we possibly perceive their personal effort incorrectly.

Although, it is not for everyone I find a HR monitor and trying to stay below your Maffetone number (180-age) can be quite humbling. I played with the number or reps for quite a while so I knew I would not go past that number. Eventually, like the fighter pull-up program, I could add a rep to each round.

 

[candelas]

@pet'
@Anna C
Thank you both for the clarification.
For S&S standard, faster than for simply training, same as for swings.
Great video Anna.

 

[candelas]

@CMarker

I was planning to use HR as well but I'm not sure how to do it.
You have to stay below your Maffetone number (180-age) while exercising, let's say swinging.
Questions
1.- What if you go higher before you finish the 1o reps?

2.- When do you start again? do you use the talk test or wait for a certain HR?

Thanks in advance

 

[Jan]

Great conversation.


Although, it is not for everyone I find a HR monitor and trying to stay below your Maffetone number (180-age) can be quite humbling. I played with the number or reps for quite a while so I knew I would not go past that number. Eventually, like the fighter pull-up program, I could add a rep to each round.

Indeed it is. I use the same principle. Had to cut my number of reps in the 2H swing @24kg down to six. Doing ten made my MHR skyrocket. I feel much more refreshed now after my S&S training.

 

[pet']

Hello,

@candelas

1.- What if you go higher before you finish the 1o reps?
2.- When do you start again? do you use the talk test or wait for a certain HR?

1. Are you far higher or just slightly higher ? If I remember well, there is 5 - 10 bpm tolerance.
2. You start when your HR is stabilized again.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[candelas]

@pet'

Hello,

@candelas


1. Are you far higher or just slightly higher ? If I remember well, there is 5 - 10 bpm tolerance.
2. You start when your HR is stabilized again.

Kind regards,

Pet'

1.- I haven't tried yet but I think that doing 10 1arm swings will raise my HR above 180-age. I'll give it a try.
2.- I read somewhere that we have to recover until our heart rate slows to 70% of HRmax. I don't know if this applies here.

Regards,

 

[offwidth]

@pet'


1.- I haven't tried yet but I think that doing 10 1arm swings will raise my HR above 180-age. I'll give it a try.
2.- I read somewhere that we have to recover until our heart rate slows to 70% of HRmax. I don't know if this applies here.

Regards,

Also make sure you are using an appropriately sized bell for your swings

 

[pet']

Hello,

@candelas

Also make sure you are using an appropriately sized bell for your swings

+1 ! Very true !

What is you bell weight ? If you are always are, may be that your bell is too heavy. Increase the weight progressively. A trick could be to find a weight with which you are not higher than the theoretical max, and then work from there.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Anna C]

Also make sure you are using an appropriately sized bell for your swings

Yes, but... appropriate for what?

For S&S, the criteria is in the program. The bell that you can do a set of 1-hand swings for a set of 10, recover for the next set, meet all the standards for every swing, and recover from day to day.

For 10 swings without going over MAF HR, this will probably be a smaller bell. This might meet a different conditioning objective, but you can expect less power and strength development in this case.

Just pointing out that either one is OK, but they may not be the same.