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Kettlebell 10 000 Swings as a long life routine ?

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Hello guys, thank you very much for your comments and recommendations. I'm very positively surprised with the level of participation and involvement of you guys in these threads and responses ! #Jason Paul is right, I never meant to do 10 K challenge all year long as this would be definitely destroying :) but I was curious about the principle this work out is based on. Doing Swings daily and always adding one more exercise, lowering volume and turning it into a daily routine.

But I think that Jason stated it right when said that "the other" exercise in the original challenge version is not really do develop you're muscles but rather maintain the strength you have.

Maybe the name for the thread was a bit misleading. I'm going to issue a new thread where I'll explain better what I need and also what my objectives are. Please be so kind to take a look at it and give me your opinion !

Have a nice day!
 
Jason Paul said:
I haven't done the 10,000 swing workout, but I think it's all about the swings, and the other lift is there mainly to maintain strength in those lifts/movements. I don't think progress is expected in those other lifts. For that reason, I don't think it would be a good long-term program - even if you lower the swing volume.

In fact I think I've seen a few posts by Dan John stating that it should be done once (per year, possibly).

Another similar option, which I'm considering when I get back to regular workouts, is the One-Kettlebell Workout from a newer article:

Tip: Do The One-Kettlebell Workout | T Nation

I was actually doing basically the same workout as occasional "additional sessions" around my S&S sessions. You can play with the volume and the kettlebell weight for progress. It would probably be better for a long-term program than the 10,000 swing workout. Obviously, it's not really a strength-building workout, but I think it's a good one for general fitness and conditioning.
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Thank you Jason, it's interesting, it basically says that you can build your workout around squats, swings and push ups...I wonder, however, do Swings as a pull sufficiently balance off push ups ? Is there not a need for a pull up or something like that ?
 
Nope, I meant swings. 5/3/1, ROP, EDT have progressions. I did read an interesting article about doing the 10k swings in 10 days, but, I think your hands would be ground beef when you're done.

Even when I don't do ROP, I like to use a random dice roller, take that number of minutes and do a set of 10 two hand swings every 30 seconds with a 40 kg bell. Good grip fryer especially if you've rolled a 9 or higher.
 
Progression is an interesting concept.

I'm 55 soon to be 56. Pretty much walk around in "6 pack" shape. I've done biggish numbers in the past, won the masters division of the TSC '05 etc... But also have wonky shoulders, big job, 2 little kids.

Let's say I decide to stay on S&S forever. I think I can do the "simple" swing standard now but I'm giving myself until my 56th to test. TGUs are harder because I have to really careful when the weight gets heavy. But I could get there.

I seriously doubt I could ever do the "sinister" standard. But let's just say I kept training to "progress" even as I passed 60 and beyond and my actual performance might even go backward. It would certainly start to at some point.

Would that mean I'm not progressing?

On paper - yes. But the delta between me and my peers would be widening all the time even if I never changed programs. I would be a fitter version of the younger me even as my numbers or weights went down, if the intensity and integrity of my daily effort was maintained.

Daily practice is its own progression.
 
@citizenfox

I'm just 54, turning 55 at the end of this year.

I intend to be Simple by the end of this year, and Sinister somewhere in the next.

And I'm about 5 cans short of a six-pack!
:eek::p:cool:
 
citizenfox said:
Progression is an interesting concept.

I'm 55 soon to be 56. Pretty much walk around in "6 pack" shape. I've done biggish numbers in the past, won the masters division of the TSC '05 etc... But also have wonky shoulders, big job, 2 little kids.

Let's say I decide to stay on S&S forever. I think I can do the "simple" swing standard now but I'm giving myself until my 56th to test. TGUs are harder because I have to really careful when the weight gets heavy. But I could get there.

I seriously doubt I could ever do the "sinister" standard. But let's just say I kept training to "progress" even as I passed 60 and beyond and my actual performance might even go backward. It would certainly start to at some point.

Would that mean I'm not progressing?

On paper - yes. But the delta between me and my peers would be widening all the time even if I never changed programs. I would be a fitter version of the younger me even as my numbers or weights went down, if the intensity and integrity of my daily effort was maintained.

Daily practice is its own progression.
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Brooks Kubik has a great book about strength standards/goals. He also includes several charts for determining relative strength based on weight and age. Most of it is barbell and dumbell related but it does allow you to compare whether your strength at say 60 is as good or even better than at 40 (when taking age into consideration). I believe it is Dinosaur training secrets volume two. The kindle version is $9.99. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to establish a baseline for TGU (simple and sinister goals) and then calibrate based on age to see how your doing.
 
There is also the 40 day swing challenge that is 250 swings per day you could try.
I believe it is meant to be done every day for 40 straight days.
Programs like S&S are meant to be a long term progression protocol to meet the goals set in it.
Just as the right of passage and the secret service snatch test are.
A very few elite gireviks would be able to do the set standards right off the bat.
There is a progression in each and how long it takes to get there will depend on your conditioning and skill level.
Many protocols Pavel recommends are not meant for muscle gain,but the side effect from these protocols can be muscle gain.
 
I've had that book, or the original blue one for 20 years or so. Talked to Brooks a few times back in the day. I was thinking more about feel than actual numbers.

I recently did a bench press cycle that said I was in the top 2% for my age and weight but it felt weak. I think doing TGUs with 32 kg would be way stronger.
 
Hey,

I'd like to try, at least for a while, the 10k protocol (on a 5 days a week base), but I have several questions:

=> Do you think this protocol is helpful / efficient to improve the work capacity ?
=> Do we "have to" do it as a stand alone base, or can we have another physical activity at the same time (I mean here NW and bodyweight cardio (HIIT)) ?
=> If I do it, will I "lose" my gains in the others exercises (pull ups, push ups, weighted squats, hanging leg raises) ?
=> Can I maintain my GTG for OA chin ups ?

Thank you for your help !

Pet'
 
@pet' IMHO:

=> Yes.

=> First see if you can do it at all, keeping good form on all those swings. A little GTG strength training in addition could work, but HIIT sounds like a bad match to me.

=> Probably a little but you'll get all your gains back quickly once you resume training those other exercises.

=> See #2 above.

-S-
 
Hey,

@Steve Freides :
First of all, I thank you for your answer.

Thus, I think I'll try to do both simultaneously...at least at the beginning. Then I'll see if I can recover or not.

I want to do it as it is described (with a 24kg kettlebell). But I still have a question : Would a heavier kettlebell (28kg) permit to do less reps (if yes, how many) ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Rep change with a heavier bell on _anything_ is going to be highly individual, can't say. Even with two people with identical DL 1RM, it could be very different.

-S-
 
Andrej SK said:
I mean something like 200 Swings a day with additional 1 key exercise that you change every work out....

What's your opinion, would it work ?
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@Andrej SK you're pretty much describing S&S. 200 swings would be challenging and weight dependent from my recent experience, I'm completing 1 month on From simple to sinister which schedules 2 days of 200 swings during the 4week period. These were great to do but they would be taxing to do daily (at least with the 40kg). For me there's a reason pavel programmes 100 swings in S&S, it's repeatable . You could mix it up by doing S&S and then waving the swings on alternate months and alternate tgus with one arm jerks (I think @PavelMacek did this with one of his fighters).
 
Hey,

My weight is about 62kg and my height is 1,82m. I am currently able to do 110 OA swings @ 28kg (55 each side) in 5 minutes. Do you think something like 400 instead of 500 would be intersting / valuable in terms of strength, endurance and cardio ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
10,000 swing challenge sounds brutal. 500 swings in a day sounds like a challenge, but to do it 20 times in 28 days? It wouldn't be a bad program to start the week after Thanksgiving. The month of December usually brings with it unwanted pounds from all the holiday food. There may be no better way to keep off the unwanted pounds! Of course, you might be a sore, tired and miserable S.O.B. during the holiday season, but no pain, no gain, right? I think the 40 days of 250 swings a day sounds more reasonable.

500 swings once a week or every other week seems like it would be a sustainable practice. Start with 100, and add 100 swings each week until you get to 500. Then start timing yourself with your current bell weight (I'm assuming you use the same weight for all 500 swings, not that you'd have to). What would be a good standard time to complete 500 swings in? 20 minutes? My swings seem to take between 1.5 - 2.0 seconds a swing. Seems like 40 would be the max in a minute, but perhaps 30 is more reasonable, plus you're likely not going to be performing swings nonstop the entire time (unless you're some kind of mutant). 20 minutes sounds like a tough but reasonable challenge: 25 swings a minute (on average) for 20 straight minutes. Once you hit the goal, move up 4kg in weight. Aim to eventually do it with the Beast.
 
Hey,

In my daily basis, I already do 100 OA swings @28k (50 each side).

Thus, should I keep this base and do, for instance 350 swings (so it would be 450 swings a day) or should I progressively increase reps until 450 ?

In the first option, I would hava my standard workout (in the morning) and the 350 in the evening.

In the second option, my wourkout would be longer.

Is there a better option ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Pet - your posts are the definition of "overthinking it". if you want to do the 10,000 swing in a month program, then do it. if you want to use the 28 instead of the 24, then do 10,000 with the 28, otherwise its not 10,000 swings in a month. the path is the teacher. stop typing and start swinging.
 
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I never meant to do 10 K challenge all year long as this would be definitely destroying :) but I was curious about the principle this work out is based on.
Click to expand...
It's the same principle as the "go all out once every few weeks" in S&S. A little shock, a bump in volume or intensity, can be a good thing. The bump in S&S is a day and the bump in 10k swings is a month, but in my mind, they're based on the same principle.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
It's the same principle as the "go all out once every few weeks" in S&S. A little shock, a bump in volume or intensity, can be a good thing. The bump in S&S is a day and the bump in 10k swings is a month, but in my mind, they're based on the same principle.

-S-
Click to expand...
agree - though 10,000 swings is more of a hill than a bump :)
 
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