Abdul-Rasheed
Level 6 Valued Member
How do we account for the stubborn fat around the waist, as some of us are struggling with? For this to go away, we need to aim for fat loss? You will still have a belly otherwise?
Kettlebell 100 swings or 1 hour walk for fat loss?
- Thread starter Dekapon
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Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
Yes, you have to eat less or differently (less calories). But if you only have a bit of fat, by gaining muscle underneath you'll make yourself look a lot better.
Being 100kg with no muscle is a lot worse than being 100kg with lots of muscle underneath the fat.
Abdul-Rasheed
Level 6 Valued Member
I have tried various diets over last few years, mainly the low carbs variety. On and off. I am not claiming, I was so diligent and perfect. But I have never been negligent about what I eat. My current B/W is 202lbs with some stubborn fat. Every time I lose weight, I reach about 180-185lbs, I noticed I become a smaller version of myself: i..e 185 lbs but still with some stubborn fat. All throughout my primary training is purely strength. And very little cardio/endurance (Some walking, jogging and a few months of KB swinging). Based on what I read here (I think posts by @North Coast Miller ) I think I should, or I may try something different, perhaps a low-fat diet, and not so much low-carbs diet.
I agree with you. I feel, and look much better than, how I was, four years back. But still with some stubborn belly fat.
You understand my frustration.
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krg
Level 7 Valued Member
Fat around the waist is probably more indicative of hormone imbalances. Cortisol (stress hormone) has been heavily implicated in storage of fat around the abdomen.
Now, how to live a stress free lifestyle is obviously a real challenge but some ideas stolen from the internet....
1) sleep enough
2) exercise a bit, but not too much
3) be happy, be your own best friend
4) have quality relationships
5) practice relaxation (breathing, meditation?)
6) get a pet
My point would be that diet and exercise may not be enough to remove abdominal fat for most of us - it probably requires a more holistic look at lifestyle.
Now, how to live a stress free lifestyle is obviously a real challenge but some ideas stolen from the internet....
1) sleep enough
2) exercise a bit, but not too much
3) be happy, be your own best friend
4) have quality relationships
5) practice relaxation (breathing, meditation?)
6) get a pet
My point would be that diet and exercise may not be enough to remove abdominal fat for most of us - it probably requires a more holistic look at lifestyle.
Kalle Videnoja
Level 6 Valued Member
I've been struggling with my weight since my kids were born in 2013 and 2016. I gained some 10kg/25lbs weight in two years after the birth of my first child. I got rid of some of the extra weight last year in six months with Simple & Sinister. I also assume that I gained some lean mass after reaching Simple. After six months I went for Hector Gutierrez's Genesis and Strength Plan 701. I gained some strength but also some mass, I tried to get rid of, with those programs. I've never been good at counting calories and most of the rules of thumb I've used have not made a much difference regarding my weight. However, this spring I started ROP (now on my 13th week) with presses only. I do martial arts with wrestling and boxing sparring a couple of times a week and the swings left me in a recovery deficit so I had to cut back the intensity. I also walk quite a lot (my phone's step counter says an average of 11 000 steps daily). What is amazing is that I've started losing fat quite rapidly. This really amazes me because I think I haven't added that much training volume (quite contrary, in fact). However, I have made a small tweak to my diet. I haven't tried intentionally to reduce my calorie intake but I'm trying to eat at least one kg of greens every day. I keep some apples and celery in the fridge at work and I use them as snacks. Before, I didn't snack or eat breakfast. I don't know if this fat loss is due to quite moderate exercise volume with some grinds, a couple of weekly sparring sessions and emphasis on daily walking, or change in metabolism or appetite due to eating more low-calorie dense foods. However, the equitation seems to work. At least for time being.
Sorry for getting a bit off track, but I would suggest to try implementing quite small steps in your daily routines. I don't know if it makes a great difference whether you do swings or walk, but probably some grinds or even metabolic conditioning wouldn't hurt. However, the equitation to weight loss might not be as straightforward as "eat less, exercise more".
Sorry for getting a bit off track, but I would suggest to try implementing quite small steps in your daily routines. I don't know if it makes a great difference whether you do swings or walk, but probably some grinds or even metabolic conditioning wouldn't hurt. However, the equitation to weight loss might not be as straightforward as "eat less, exercise more".
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
Fat Around The Waist
Cortisol to some extent like Cholesterol tends to be solely be named and vilified for weight/fat gain and a multitude of health issues. It's tend to be more of a symptom of the issue rather than the prime root cause.
Two of the primary root causes of weight/fat gain, chronic elevated cortisol (acute cortisol is healthy), inflammation, etc are...
1) Excess caloric intake; Calories count.
2) Insulin Resistance. Insulin Resistance is one of the prime root in a multitude of health issues.
Individual who Insulin Resistant who consume a high carbohydrate diet store more body fat than individuals who are Insulin Sensitive.
Stress
Stress tends to be self induced.
While some of the things you mentioned will help, they aren't going to effectively address the root cause. Many over weight individual are laid back and happy.
It's somewhat similar to the saying, "You can out train a bad diet". While exercise/decreasing stress can assist with weight/fat loss, it's secondary to diet.
Take Home Message
1) Caloric Deficit: Consume fewer calories that you burn.
2) Insulin Resistance: Decrease the number of carbohydrates you consume.
3) Consume lower Glycemic/Insulinogenic Carbohydrates; eat carbohydrates of color.
Kenny Croxdale
Hey, me, too, @Abdul Rasheed. I don't worry about it, but I have pretty much all my bodyfat, or so it seems, around my waist.
Fabio wrote a blog here about how he dieted for a bodybuilding competition - his approach might be worth trying for you.
An interesting metric is bodyfat percentage, if you can find a way to measure that's consistent and that you trust. If, when you drop 10 kg, you have also lowered your bodyfat percentage, you've accomplished something positive, IMHO.
-S-
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
Glucose For The Brain
The brain can effectively run off ketones.
An individual's brain on a Ketogenic Diet/Keto Adapted will derive the majority of its fuel from ketones and only need around 20 - 30 gram of glucose.
Gluconeogenesis
On a Ketogenic Diet, glucose can be make from protein as well as glycerol, the backbone of triglycerides.
Alzheimers ("Type 3 Diabetes", Dementia, TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury), Concussions. etc
Research shows one of the main issues in these conditions is that the brain is unable to use glucose for energy.
Basically, electricity is turned off to the brain and the brain cells are starved to death.
Ketones For The Brain
Research has demonstrated ketones are effective used by the brain in cases like this.
Medium Chain Triglycerides and Coconut Oil (which contain MCTs) have demonstrated to be effective in conditions like Alzheimers, Demential, TBI, Concussions etc.
Kenny Croxdale
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Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
Brother, I know how you feel. I'll add that in my case, walking a lot got rid of the fat. Apparently according to the science posted on these forums, walking does not burn many calories. So, this is what I think: walking makes other changes in how our body is functioning that after a chain of causes results somehow in less fat percentage. Maybe walking affects your hormones or something.I have tried various diets over last few years, mainly the low carbs variety. On and off. I am not claiming, I was so diligent and perfect. But I have never been negligent about what I eat. My current B/W is 202lbs with some stubborn fat. Every time I lose weight, I reach about 180-185lbs, I noticed I become a smaller version of myself: i..e 185 lbs but still with some stubborn fat. All throughout my primary training is purely strength. And very little cardio/endurance (Some walking, jogging and a few months of KB swinging). Based on what I read here (I think posts by @North Coast Miller ) I think I should, or I may try something different, perhaps a low-fat diet, and not so much low-carbs diet.
I agree with you. I feel, and look much better than, how I was, four years back. But still with some stubborn belly fat.
Walking has always always worked for me, and it will work again. In terms of how much, a minimum of 75 minutes at a go a day, not split up into two halves or anything.
Obvious I make a point of moderately reducing my overall eating, but only moderately, since if you're hungry you can't live normally.
I used to lose 7 lbs in two days (starting Wednesday evening and going through to Saturday morning) for judo competitions, but this wasn't pleasant.
I'm seeing if I can go from 102kg to 90kg over the next several months. It's as much a test of what I can do as it is something I want to do.
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Abdul-Rasheed
Level 6 Valued Member
You have a lot of patience! I have started walking, 30-45 mins, 4-5 times a week. And plan to continue till winter.
Abdul-Rasheed
Level 6 Valued Member
Yes, The "Hit the Target" Fat Loss Plan | StrongFirst. I may try this one day. Since the only diet restriction I have experimented with my life is low carbs variety, I am thinking of giving high carb/low fat diet a try a few months. Several forum members seem to have success with it.
the hansenator
Level 6 Valued Member
Here's my theory - Walking burns more calories then sitting and, if someone is only eating a little over maintenance, walking could be enough to go into a negative calorie balance.
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
I don't know why it works, but it does. It clearly isn't directly about burning calories. If I had to guess it's more about the body realizing it has to adapt to walking around a lot and so it changes into a fitter physicque to compensate.
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
Makes sense. In my case, just the way I am, if I gorge myself on as much food as I want I can't get much above 102kg. If I eat a wee bit less but not so much as to leave myself hungry, and walk every day, I drop a lot of weight fairly quickly. It might be for exatly the reason you give.
Dekapon
Level 3 Valued Member
I recently heard about a new study, don't have the ref-link to it because the podcast that spoke about it hasn't posted it yet, but they are a "scientific weightlifting podcast"...
The study showed that during an hour of "typical heavy weight lifting", 3 set of 10, 90 sec set-rest on different machines for an hour, only burned 150 kcal! That's about one banana... The conclusion of the study was that people often overestimate the calories they burn during a work out, and it's easy to eat more afterwards and overcompensate during weight lifting. Walking burns much more per hour. Not to mention swimming, thai-boxing, running etc.
Gym's, magazines and "calorie calculators" like those on a cross-trainer or online often overestimate the amount of calories burned, probably so that people can feel good about them selfs and buy more magazines and gym memberships.
Another study I read:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-018-0999-9
A study about three groups of people. One group did weight lifting 3 times a week, one did cardio 3 times a week and one group did weight lifting 3 times a week AND cardio 3 times a week on alternate days. All groups ate 2g protein/kg bodymass/day (200g of protein a day if you weigh 100kg) and ate a calorie surplus.
The two weightlifting groups gained about 3,8% lean body mass while the only cardio group gained 2,9% of lean body mass.
So here's what I'm going to do unless you stop me:
Walk everyday for at least an hour (will aim for 30min before breakfast, 60min in the evening)
Eat a bit less than I do already and complain loudly about how hungry I am on the internet
Eat at least 200g of protein a day (proper food and 2 whey-shakes daily)
Add one more workout a week with a lighter bell for cardio (snatches with a 24kg)
The study showed that during an hour of "typical heavy weight lifting", 3 set of 10, 90 sec set-rest on different machines for an hour, only burned 150 kcal!
That's about one banana... The conclusion of the study was that people often overestimate the calories they burn during a work out, and it's easy to eat more afterwards and overcompensate during weight lifting. Walking burns much more per hour. Not to mention swimming, thai-boxing, running etc. Gym's, magazines and "calorie calculators" like those on a cross-trainer or online often overestimate the amount of calories burned, probably so that people can feel good about them selfs and buy more magazines and gym memberships.
Another study I read:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-018-0999-9
A study about three groups of people. One group did weight lifting 3 times a week, one did cardio 3 times a week and one group did weight lifting 3 times a week AND cardio 3 times a week on alternate days. All groups ate 2g protein/kg bodymass/day (200g of protein a day if you weigh 100kg) and ate a calorie surplus.
The two weightlifting groups gained about 3,8% lean body mass while the only cardio group gained 2,9% of lean body mass.
So here's what I'm going to do unless you stop me:
Walk everyday for at least an hour (will aim for 30min before breakfast, 60min in the evening)
Eat a bit less than I do already and complain loudly about how hungry I am on the internet
Eat at least 200g of protein a day (proper food and 2 whey-shakes daily)
Add one more workout a week with a lighter bell for cardio (snatches with a 24kg)
Abdul-Rasheed
Level 6 Valued Member
Sounds like a great plan. Really.
krg
Level 7 Valued Member
This deserves a thread of its own
Oscar
Level 7 Valued Member
The study showed that during an hour of "typical heavy weight lifting", 3 set of 10, 90 sec set-rest on different machines for an hour, only burned 150 kcal!
I'm not arguing against this at all. However, one thing is to do curls and the such for one hour, and a different story is to do full body movements with a kettlebell for an hour, keeping your average HR close to 130 during the period. The second workout burns way more than 150 cal.
Lets say a given routine burns 450 cal and you do it 4/week. At the end of the year, that simple routine burned 13 kg of fat. Not even considering the increased muscle mass that burns calories, the increased metabolism during the rest of the day, etc.
Now, if you sustain it for 10 years, thats 130 kg of fat. So whoever has been sedentary for ten years and is 30 kg overweight, there is your answer.
I know the math is not so straight forward, but I dont think it is too far from that. Thats why I think strength training is 90% of the weight loss fight.
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