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Kettlebell Kettlebells StrongFirst

If it is BJJ Fanatics, wait until they have one of their sales before purchasing. They just got done with 50% off sale for Xmas and are currently running 40% for New Years. They regularly have 30% off sales as well. If you are really patient, wait until it ends up on their deal of the day and then combine it with a coupon.
 
I know pavel doesn’t do diet stuff, but if this is a guide for bjj is there going to be some sort of guide on how to eat from one of the other instructors? Im thinking it would be for hitting your weight class purposes
 
Provx said:
I know pavel doesn’t do diet stuff, but if this is a guide for bjj is there going to be some sort of guide on how to eat from one of the other instructors? Im thinking it would be for hitting your weight class purposes
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There are plenty of good diet discussions on the Diet section of our forum.

-S-
 
Other than single arm, what's the difference in intent between this long cycle and Girevoy sport long cycle?
 
watchnerd said:
Other than single arm, what's the difference in intent between this long cycle and Girevoy sport long cycle?
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Very different form. Using a graphic from https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbdz3CnZsJxQuxe391PAgVQ showing GS:

1609444978967.png

In my assessment, if we were to look at a comparable C&J (long cycle) done in hardstyle:
  • We would start at the 2nd picture, with hips a little higher
  • In the 3rd picture we would be in a deeper hinge (more knee bend) and a big chest, looking out
  • In 4, and 5 the body would already be in position 6
  • In 7 and 9 we would be standing more vertical with no backward lean
  • In 8 we would NOT dip with a knee bend to catch the clean (so, skip 8 and 9)
  • In 10 we would dip with both hip and knee flexion keeping the torso vertical to launch, with no backward lean in 11
  • 12 is very much the same, but most GS athletes are much better at this position! We would probably have less back extension and open shoulders, but only for lack of mobility.
  • 13 we don't usually come up on the toes to initiate the catch
  • 14 we would keep the torso vertical
  • 15 we would stand straight with no backward lean.
 
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watchnerd said:
Other than single arm, what's the difference in intent between this long cycle and Girevoy sport long cycle?
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Posture and breathing is different. Gs focuses on efficiency, hs focuses more to power. For non-gs athletes hardstyle is always going to better and safer choice.
And I personally compete is gs-marathons (national bronze medal in 30min one arm long cycle, 300 reps with 22kg. Multiswitch event, but you can't put the Bell down unti time is up.) time to time so I have some "expertise" in this subject.
 
Sauli said:
Posture and breathing is different. Gs focuses on efficiency, hs focuses more to power. For non-gs athletes hardstyle is always going to better and safer choice.
And I personally compete is gs-marathons (national bronze medal in 30min one arm long cycle, 300 reps with 22kg. Multiswitch event, but you can't put the Bell down unti time is up.) time to time so I have some "expertise" in this subject.
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Wouldn't this excessive back lean under heavy loads cause progressive spine deterioration or deformation over the years? My lower back gets alarmed whenever I try to watch a YouTube GS LCCJ.

I do understand the point about efficiency... Hardstyle LCCJ with a pair of 24's can smoke almost anyone pretty quickly. I once did a few weeks of ROTK with a pair of 20's for LCCJ and it wasn't pretty, but very educational and humbling.
 
barrak said:
Wouldn't this excessive back lean under heavy loads cause progressive spine deterioration or deformation over the years? My lower back gets alarmed whenever I try to watch a YouTube GS LCCJ.

I do understand the point about efficiency... Hardstyle LCCJ with a pair of 24's can smoke almost anyone pretty quickly. I once did a few weeks of ROTK with a pair of 20's for LCCJ and it wasn't pretty, but very educational and humbling.
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Elite lifters have also elite mobility. For us mortals those pseudoracks with doubles don't suit as well. :)
 
Anna C said:
Very different form. Using a graphic from https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbdz3CnZsJxQuxe391PAgVQ showing GS:

View attachment 12370

In my assessment, if we were to look at a comparable C&J (long cycle) done in hardstyle:
  • We would start at the 2nd picture, with hips a little higher
  • In the 3rd picture we would be in a deeper hinge (more knee bend) and a big chest, looking out
  • In 4, and 5 the body would already be in position 6
  • In 7 and 9 we would be standing more vertical with no backward lean
  • In 8 we would NOT dip with a knee bend to catch the clean (so, skip 8 and 9)
  • In 10 we would dip with both hip and knee flexion keeping the torso vertical to launch, with no backward lean in 11
  • 12 is very much the same, but most GS athletes are much better at this position! We would probably have less back extension and open shoulders, but only for lack of mobility.
  • 13 we don't usually come up on the toes to initiate the catch
  • 14 we would keep the torso vertical
  • 15 we would stand straight with no backward lean.
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Thank you, although I think I already roughly understood the form difference.

That's why I asked about *intent*.

Or to put it differently:

What is the purpose of training the hardstyle long cycle?

After all, there aren't hardstyle long cycle competitions and it's not a sport in its own right.

What are the particular benefits, especially compared to other power, strength or endurance training options?

Unless the intent is just to have something to do for its own sake with no intention for carry-over to a different sport or other activity. Which is fine.

I hope I'm not coming across as difficult, I'm genuinely curious and interested, but trying to understand what it might offer someone who isn't a fighter or a kettlebells-only person.
 
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watchnerd said:
Thank you, although I think I already roughly understood the form difference.

That's why I asked about *intent*.

Or to put it differently:

What is the purpose of training the hardstyle long cycle?

After all, there aren't hardstyle long cycle competitions and it's not a sport in its own right.

What are the particular benefits, especially compared to other power, strength or endurance training options?

Unless the intent is just to have something to do for its own sake with no intention for carry-over to a different sport or other activity. Which is fine.

I hope I'm not coming across as difficult, I'm genuinely curious and interested, but trying to understand what it might offer someone who isn't a fighter or a kettlebells-only person.
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I think “a good workout” is a good enough reason for most people.
 
watchnerd said:
What is the purpose of training the hardstyle long cycle?

After all, there aren't hardstyle long cycle competitions and it's not a sport in its own right.

What are the particular benefits, especially compared to other power, strength or endurance training options?

Unless the intent is just to have something to do for its own sake with no intention for carry-over to a different sport or other activity. Which is fine.

I hope I'm not coming across as difficult, I'm genuinely curious and interested, but trying to understand what it might offer someone who isn't a fighter or a kettlebells-only person.
Click to expand...

It's a particular use of kettlebells to do a LOT of work, spreading the load over the whole body. This can be modulated to any energy demand -- slow cadence and continuous with light to moderate weight (mostly aerobic) to glycolytic (moderate and continuous for any period of time) to A+A (alactic with a short effort/repeat and long rests with the kettlebells down between repeats). While doing this, you can train power with a quick hardstyle clean, and a hardstyle jerk that uses the hips and knees. Arm muscles are worked hard with holding the bells in the rack. Shoulders are worked with the rack and the overhead position. Abs are working hard throughout the movement. The whole body is loaded as long as the bells are off the ground.

So the they're good for working all those muscles in a training session where you can do a large volume output, repetitively produce power, ensure consistent energy demands, and focus on execution. It's a great strength endurance option. For any single aspect of what it's good for, there may be better options... but for the whole combination of what it's good for, you'd be hard pressed to find a better exercise: quads, calves (dip and drive), hamstrings and glutes (hinge), forearms/grip, biceps and abs strength and endurance, overhead position, cardiovascular output, energy production, internal effort regulation, mental discipline... and more.

As to what might be the carry-over... I'd say it's a great GPP exercise. I don't know if there would be any carryover to weightlifting. I'm kind of curious, and actually experimenting with this a bit as I'm on a hiatus from the barbell until mid-January.
 
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