Kettlebell Adding deadlift days to Simple and Sinister
- Thread starter Denys Carthusian
- Start date
mar2safety
Level 6 Valued Member
Use DDD but play with the volume. You could just do 3 singles per day, as part of your warmup.
Adam R Mundorf
Level 6 Valued Member
Back when I was retired (early), I picked up a much more comprehensive training regime because I simply had all day to train. I would spend all day on the Rite of Passage in-between bouts of yard work with plenty of mobility to go with. I don't see the point in doing less if your lifestyle is conducive to doing more. In my opinion, stress is cumulative and everything factors in.....this includes, finances, psychological stress, career stress and emotional stress.
Do more if your lifestyle stress is extremely low because you have the mental, physical and emotional RAM to give it your all. Now, that I'm back in the workforce, I simply need to pare down my training because my schedule is non-consistent and I have a lot more on my plate....
I also think it's important to identify the 'main dish' of your life. What is your priority? For most of us, lifting isn't a priority. Our job, passions and hobbies probably are. So identify your main dish and then build your training program around that......
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Denys Carthusian
Level 5 Valued Member
10x10 anywhere from 4 to 7 days a week. Because I'm rehabbing I'm currently moving from 12 to 16 kg on TGU and 16kg to 20kg on 1HS (for some reason my upper thoracics get tweaked by 2 hand swings so I'm laying off until I get more stability) In other words, on TGU I'm at the higher weight on sets 3, 4, 5 and 6 and same with 1 hand swings.
Deads were done with a standard 7 foot bar and two 45 lb plates, so roughly 130 lbs. Bodyweight 165 lbs at 5'10"
Luis T. Gonzalez
Level 7 Valued Member
In Rite of Passage, you snatch one day and swing two other days. The program allows two deadlift days on PTTP plus some other variety lifts if you choose. I find 3 days of ballistics with whatever other lifting I’m doing is doable.
Denys Carthusian
Level 5 Valued Member
Additional information:
As part of my rehab (a Gonstead chiropractor August 2023 who also used Shockwave therapy on my battered lower legs and feet to clear up nasty plantar fascitis) its become apparent that my body has to relearn how to move without the weird compensations I'd developed. Even something as straightforward as S&S would cause tweaks until I figured out how to adapt.
So, with that out of the way, I had originally planned to alternate S&S and Iron Cardio, but I still have a tendency to develop thoracic outlet syndrome on my left shoulder and I'm thinking getting the bell size up once or twice on both the swing and the TGU will help eliminate that problem (in particular the TGU tendency to fix shoulders).
One thing that's weird is that although I have a weaker right side in some respects (because of my strange imbalances in my thoracic and lumbar and pelvic regions which are only now coming back online) my right side is still my "dominant" side above the waist. The stubborn compensation is at T11 and T12. The T12 junction is what became hypermobile but that was a compensation for T11.
When I get "jacked up" its at the weird T1/C7 spot which is compensating for what's happening below, and then I get an unhappy thoracic outlet. For some reason, the deadlift seems to hit that spot nicely and even my rear delts feel better afterward. Not to mention the soles of my feet and my lower legs. I also like using the negative although I had an experience about 12 years ago where doing 5 sets of 5 deadlifts with negatives got so much mass increases that I actually got scared and stopped.
Dan John mentioned in one of his podcasts that if you compare the backs of a pullup specialist and a deadlift specialist the deadlift guy (or gal) definitely shows more development in the back - particularly the upper back. Given I don't want to aggravate Middle Aged Pullup Syndrome in my elbows, deadlifts seem like a logical way to shock my nervous system, perhaps gain some Mass without the risks of barbell squats if I go quietly on the lowering of the bar and gain some much needed stability throughout my back while filling in some gaps that S&S aren't doing for me at my current relatively low bell weight.
In addition to domestic harmony, I like the feel of lowering the bar and always feel strange dropping the bar. Perhaps I'm just a control freak.
As part of my rehab (a Gonstead chiropractor August 2023 who also used Shockwave therapy on my battered lower legs and feet to clear up nasty plantar fascitis) its become apparent that my body has to relearn how to move without the weird compensations I'd developed. Even something as straightforward as S&S would cause tweaks until I figured out how to adapt.
So, with that out of the way, I had originally planned to alternate S&S and Iron Cardio, but I still have a tendency to develop thoracic outlet syndrome on my left shoulder and I'm thinking getting the bell size up once or twice on both the swing and the TGU will help eliminate that problem (in particular the TGU tendency to fix shoulders).
One thing that's weird is that although I have a weaker right side in some respects (because of my strange imbalances in my thoracic and lumbar and pelvic regions which are only now coming back online) my right side is still my "dominant" side above the waist. The stubborn compensation is at T11 and T12. The T12 junction is what became hypermobile but that was a compensation for T11.
When I get "jacked up" its at the weird T1/C7 spot which is compensating for what's happening below, and then I get an unhappy thoracic outlet. For some reason, the deadlift seems to hit that spot nicely and even my rear delts feel better afterward. Not to mention the soles of my feet and my lower legs. I also like using the negative although I had an experience about 12 years ago where doing 5 sets of 5 deadlifts with negatives got so much mass increases that I actually got scared and stopped.
Dan John mentioned in one of his podcasts that if you compare the backs of a pullup specialist and a deadlift specialist the deadlift guy (or gal) definitely shows more development in the back - particularly the upper back. Given I don't want to aggravate Middle Aged Pullup Syndrome in my elbows, deadlifts seem like a logical way to shock my nervous system, perhaps gain some Mass without the risks of barbell squats if I go quietly on the lowering of the bar and gain some much needed stability throughout my back while filling in some gaps that S&S aren't doing for me at my current relatively low bell weight.
In addition to domestic harmony, I like the feel of lowering the bar and always feel strange dropping the bar. Perhaps I'm just a control freak.
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I’d stick with Simple as your goal and do some deadlifts once a week. Your bar weighs 45 lb so you’re doing 135. From time to time, add a little weight.
-S-
Here’s a nice, slow progression you could use for weekly deadlifts. I do something like this in my own training.
Work up to 135 x 5. The next week do
135 x 5
145x 1
And each subsequent week, add another rep to your 145 until you reach
135 x 5
145 x 4
Then add 155 x 1 the following week and work up to
135 x 5
145 x 4
155 x 3
Then add 165 x 1 the following week, then
135 x 5
145 x 4
155 x 3
165 x 2
And the following week add 175 x 1 and your cycle is done. Start the next cycle with 145 x 5 and follow the same logic, ending with 185 x 1. When it gets to be too difficult, come back and we’ll talk about what’s next. Going from 145 x 1 to the end will take you about 10 weeks.
-S-
Work up to 135 x 5. The next week do
135 x 5
145x 1
And each subsequent week, add another rep to your 145 until you reach
135 x 5
145 x 4
Then add 155 x 1 the following week and work up to
135 x 5
145 x 4
155 x 3
Then add 165 x 1 the following week, then
135 x 5
145 x 4
155 x 3
165 x 2
And the following week add 175 x 1 and your cycle is done. Start the next cycle with 145 x 5 and follow the same logic, ending with 185 x 1. When it gets to be too difficult, come back and we’ll talk about what’s next. Going from 145 x 1 to the end will take you about 10 weeks.
-S-
Denys Carthusian
Level 5 Valued Member
This looks fantastic! Thanks Steve. I'm at an age where I now have to look at 70 and 80 years of age as the long term goals so it makes a lot easier to do once a week deads than 5 day a week deads when I think about those numbers.
Thanks for the kind words.
If you have the urge to do a 2nd deadlift day in any week, take 1 rep off of everything and skip the top rung, e.g., if your previous sessions was
135 x 5
145 x 4
155 x 1
make your 2nd session
135 x 4 (1 rep less)
145 x 3 (1 rep less)
(skip the top level entirely)
Another example of this:
If your previous session was
135 x 5
145 x 4
155 x 3
165 x 2
make your 2nd session
135 x 4
145 x 3
155 x 2
(skip the top level entirely)
You'll end up with 60-80% of the volume of the previous day and a slightly lower average intensity. You won't find the second session as taxing and the extra weekly volume and frequency will help your deadlift (while both volume and frequency are still quite low and shouldn't cause you any problems with your near-daily S&S).
Feel free to do or not do the 2nd session in any week - the program works fine without doing any of them, but doing them as above will help your DL a little. As always, one has to look at the big picture, and if you haven't met Timeless Simple, then it makes sense to keep Timeless Simple as your focus.
-S-
Denys Carthusian
Level 5 Valued Member
Two things I forgot to ask:
(1) Do you avoid the eccentric phase (I love the eccentric phase, but I'm weird).
(2) What do you look at for minimum and maximum rest times between reps or sets?
(1) Do you avoid the eccentric phase (I love the eccentric phase, but I'm weird).
(2) What do you look at for minimum and maximum rest times between reps or sets?
I have no answers for either.
See Deadlift: To Stop or To Go | StrongFirst and see Power To The People!
See Enter The Kettlebell where there's a full page about this.
Choose these variables to suit your needs/goals. If you don't have a preference, then practice them all over time.
-S-
Denys Carthusian
Level 5 Valued Member
Gotcha. Thank you again, sir!
silveraw
Level 9 Valued Member
If you want an additional hypertrophy focus sure.
Are you recovered before you start the next set? Personally not a fan of specific rest periods for strength training in general. Just take as much time as you need. If you have to warm up before the next set, it was too long. If you are struggling to hit your reps, it was too short.
Luis T. Gonzalez
Level 7 Valued Member
You could play around with both. The majority of the time, I lower the weight controlled. I don’t like to just let it drop as it can make you lose your tension. But just pay attention to how you feel. If you feel like tension is lost, then do a complete reset. I personally like to get as much development from the deadlift as possible so I lower it back down controlled, touch the floor and push the floor away to stand back up. I think the eccentric is nice too.
@Luis T. Gonzalez, what you're demonstrating there is a lot of time under tension, which is good for hypertrophy, but that isn't everyone's goal. It's also very good for honing your groove - whenever I've done those, I've found the 2nd and later reps had better form than my first rep, and that was/is a big lesson for me.
-S-
-S-
Luis T. Gonzalez
Level 7 Valued Member
Yes I agree. It’s definitely not the way for everyone. I do like it for the muscle building effect and really honing keeping tension and the groove like you mentioned.
Denys Carthusian
Level 5 Valued Member
I will say in defense of Steve that the only time I did serious deadlifts prior to finding Daily Dose Deadlifts where I emphasized the negative my legs, butt and torso blew up so fast I immediately put a halt to it lest I blow out of my work suits.
Luis T. Gonzalez
Level 7 Valued Member
Oh I agree. I just had to buy new pants. But if you are wanting to get bigger they will certainly help that cause. Haha
Bill Lets
Level 6 Valued Member
Okay so I tried deadlifting today because of this thread. I did 10 singles w/225lbs. My question is a couple of the reps it got dark at the top. Is there any way to minimize this? I understand it happens with a lot more plates but this was easy and light weight. I have a usual heart rate in the 40’s and 60’s and a BP around 60ish over 100ish. Thanks
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