Kettlebell Alactic + Aerobic continued...

[TrailNRG]

I had the opportunity to train with my son at his club’s boathouse yesterday. We did 30min EMOM double C&J’s then immediately hopped on the erg for a Z-2 10k.
He coached me as we were side-by-side and got my stroke rate down using a 4.5 damper setting. Turns out I need some more technique coaching.
Here’s my 10k at 130 bmp avg. The C&J session was 146 avg. I’m 53 years old.

 

[George Vrotsos]

@Harald Motz Thank you for sharing. Loads of insight in your threads. Do you program grind days around the ballistic A+A days, and if so how frequently?

 

[Hung]

Some of us on this forum live in pretty hot climates. Adapt or die….

Yeah we adapt to air conditioner. Thank you Westerner

 

[offwidth]

Yeah we adapt to air conditioner. Thank you Westerner

On the flip side… some live in pretty cold climates…

 

[Harald Motz]

I had the opportunity to train with my son at his club’s boathouse yesterday. We did 30min EMOM double C&J’s then immediately hopped on the erg for a Z-2 10k.
He coached me as we were side-by-side and got my stroke rate down using a 4.5 damper setting. Turns out I need some more technique coaching.
Here’s my 10k at 130 bmp avg. The C&J session was 146 avg. I’m 53 years old.
View attachment 18637

Nice. You kept your hr steady with the row? If so your going on the 2k splits are like mine...first two 2k's relatively slow then it opens up considerably. Most of the time the last 2k split is the fastest.

@Harald Motz Thank you for sharing. Loads of insight in your threads. Do you program grind days around the ballistic A+A days, and if so how frequently?

Lately I keep my grinds pretty minimal. I like doing in conjunction with q&d sessions (1r x5 on 30sec) x4 pressing cluster. One cluster of five singles every 30sec on the left, then one 5 singles cluster on the right, one again on the left and one on the right. So I get 10 total singles on each hand.

Today I had a q&d with 80 total snatches, followed by 6 deadlift singles on 45 sec and my currently usual easy 10k row.

Daily dose deadlifts are great in itself and worked very good as a cns primer before a ballistic session in the past.

I am a big fan of clusterseries training and I am more or less timing every session for the last 3/4 years be it ballistic or grind... on 30 sec, 45 sec, otm on 90 sec. Loads and resting time can be manipulated nicely after getting a bit of practice and experience with it.

 

[Halfakneecap]

Would push press work with the A+A article you posted by pavel ? The 30s each arm x 30mins?

 

[George Vrotsos]

Would push press work with the A+A article you posted by pavel ? The 30s each arm x 30mins?

I'm pretty sure any clean and jerk program can be substituted with a push press. Trade off is Push Press is an easier move to do, but Jerk lets you move more weight if you can do it. I'd do the long cycle push press, cleaning before every PP if I wanted to mimic the A+A C+J article.

 

[Halfakneecap]

I'm pretty sure any clean and jerk program can be substituted with a push press. Trade off is Push Press is an easier move to do, but Jerk lets you move more weight if you can do it. I'd do the long cycle push press, cleaning before every PP if I wanted to mimic the A+A C+J article.

Much appreciated, thank you. I’m only learning the snatch, never tried the Jerk, but am comfortable with clean and press and push press. Almost finished phase 1 of kb strong, and thinking about what’s next.

I have the Strong videos and can do an overhead squat with an empty Olympic bar, maybe I can watch the videos and start practicing the Jerk? I might look into that

 

[Harald Motz]

Today's double C&J with an 'even easier aerobic' row: tried to get around 123bpm, which is a nice number of 1, 2, 3...and got that on average on the rower. The 'blue zone' in my opinion is the 'best' zone for aeribic base work.

@TrailNRG my splits:

almost same slow splits on the first 2k's then aerobic state begins to shine. Finished 'strong' on the last 2k.

Again a good loss of water of 2,2kg/4,84lb. Sweating is healthy.

 

[Harald Motz]

@Harald Motz Thank you for sharing. Loads of insight in your threads. Do you program grind days around the ballistic A+A days, and if so how frequently?

As I said above, I currently do not much of grind work, more of a kind of add on on q&d sessions like yesterday with DL singles:



personally my best (clean &) press program goes like this:

I did kind of this for some weeks/months two years back. It is basically the q&d 044 snatch timing template. To begin with take a weight you can press for solid doubles/triples. 3-5 times a week for 3-5 series.

Clustersingles is just great fir too many reasons. Great to learn to autoregulate. You can work up to a 'good grind' later and call it a day. I worked up to Clean & Press 2x44kg for some singles with a bit of rest in between at a bw of 85kg back then and a barbell press of 90kg. I used the barbell press too with cluster singles.

 

[TrailNRG]

@Harald Motz it usually takes me 2-4k to ‘warm-up’ and settle in and I generally finish “strong” too! I really like the feel of the C&J and rowing thus far and will continue through August. Thank you again for sharing this routine.

 

[Halfakneecap]

I’ll be that guy sorry, but would you be able to do this once a week between two strength sessions? I’m not far off finishing Strong phase 1, and would like to continue onto phase 2 as I’m progressing nicely.

I’m starting a new job soon so will be a bit out of sorts ( coming off shift work after 20yrs ) and was thinking Strong on Mon Fri and A+A push press on Wed. My conditioning isn’t great so I thought it’d be good to just slowly build it up.

Thoughts ?

 

[Dayz]

I notice you do aerobic work right after A+A. Is it possible to do the same after Q&D without messing with the adaptations?

 

[Adachi]

I notice you do aerobic work right after A+A. Is it possible to do the same after Q&D without messing with the adaptations?

just as long as you don't do anything before it.
Fast, first.

 

[Harald Motz]

I notice you do aerobic work right after A+A. Is it possible to do the same after Q&D without messing with the adaptations?

Yesterday's Q&D snatching, Clustersingles pressing and my lately beloved easy 10k row. I don't know if it's optimal for any supposed outcome. For the last weeks I am doing kind of this pretty daily with alternating q&d + 10k, single or double bell C&J + 10k. My feel on it is very good. I seem to recover pretty well on it on a daily basis - too the recovery between the sets or series is quite good also considering that it is a quite warm summer. I can do these sessions all in my room/bedroom behind shades and I am not exposed to direct sunlight.


this is my first sub 40 min 10k of the summer season 4 weeks ago. Usually I rowed in cooler seasons in the past. But lately I am loving and embracing the sweatfest.



another 'see how heart rate behaves' sub 40min 10k check in after accumulating quite some easy 10k 'finisher' in 4 weeks, staying in my much preferred blue zone 60-70% of hr max. More or less it is just to be expected - but on an individual level it must be done to really see/experience/feel how well this easy endurance works.

The snatches and C&J's can't be bad for rowing (just by 'going through the mives') - the rowing not bad for the former.
Too my slow jogs which I do very sparingly lately I get immediately nice running indices of 50-55, not spectacular but in my book and 'weight class' a good base.

Still there is to remember:
it is Alactic + Aeribic = Strong Endurance

 

[Matt_lux]

Hello @Harald Motz ,

Now that you have a lot of month of C&J A+A under your belt, how do you compare it to the snatch ?
I'm talking about a comparison between strength / power / cardio development.
You stated once that after 3 years of nearly snatch-only period, snatch was the best exercice for an overall athletic development. Has it changed?

Thank you for your rigorious insights, always a pleasure to read and learn from you.

 

[Harald Motz]

Hello @Harald Motz ,

Now that you have a lot of month of C&J A+A under your belt, how do you compare it to the snatch ?
I'm talking about a comparison between strength / power / cardio development.
You stated once that after 3 years of nearly snatch-only period, snatch was the best exercice for an overall athletic development. Has it changed?

Thank you for your rigorious insights, always a pleasure to read and learn from you.

The last 7 months were a lot of experimentation with the C&J double bell and single bell. Lately with double cleans and double jerks. The jerks. Currently I feel double Jerk is tzar, double C&J tzarina, heavy one arm snatch is tzars mistress.

Still the heavy one arm snatch would probably my choice for 'if you would be limited to just one exercise' as a multi purpose tool.

Heavy volume snatching is cruel in summer months to the hands. In winter slightly better.

With the double clean and double c&j I use tight fitting working gloves: no need to chalk. Works like a charm, and I can trash my hands with 1-3 q&d snatch sessions as I use a deep grip (if the gloves would work here too, I would use them) - which is great generate power.

For the next half of the year I want to stick with double clean, jerk, clean and jerk with a bit of aggressive snatching for my KB work...goes a looong way. So experimentation phase continues.

The double bell work goes more towards strength-speed, the one arm snatch to speed strength.

 

[Adachi]

once upon a time I remember a description that the inclusion of aerobic work helped to act as a shock absorber for work capacity that you can't get any other way.

I like to rephrase the A+A name to myself to try to conceptualize it.
Alactic: short and heavy.
Aerobic: long and light.

I was reminded about the beloved 10k Row when watching the video linked in this post.

Kettlebell - Kettlebell training for hard labour jobs

Hi all If kettlebell training is used by military and law enforcement to increase fitness and strength could the same not be done for hard manual jobs such as coal mining construction forestry type work. Has anyone ever implemented training for their employees?

www.strongfirst.com

It causes me to consider the Aerobic side of the A+A coin, in a new light.

 

[Ian CL]

once upon a time I remember a description that the inclusion of aerobic work helped to act as a shock absorber for work capacity that you can't get any other way.

I like to rephrase the A+A name to myself to try to conceptualize it.
Alactic: short and heavy.
Aerobic: long and light.

I was reminded about the beloved 10k Row when watching the video linked in this post.

Kettlebell - Kettlebell training for hard labour jobs

Hi all If kettlebell training is used by military and law enforcement to increase fitness and strength could the same not be done for hard manual jobs such as coal mining construction forestry type work. Has anyone ever implemented training for their employees?

www.strongfirst.com

It causes me to consider the Aerobic side of the A+A coin, in a new light.

Daily 90/90! (90 min 90lbs ruck). That's an impressive amount of rucking.

 

[Adachi]

Daily 90/90! (90 min 90lbs ruck). That's an impressive amount of rucking.

wouldn't mind working up to that.