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Always Be Smashing

I'm not sure what it is exactly but there are likely many reasons. Though I'm also uncertain what exactly was the question.

I think the load has a big effect on the feel. Many people deadlift way more than they squat, and I suspect the difference is mental. The same may stand for the presses. It's easy to bail out with an overhead press, and you don't need a spotter. So especially beginners may use relatively more load.

With the presses I also suspect there's a bigger feel of using the whole body with the overhead because the bench technique may be harder to learn and less intuitive.

The dead start does have an effect as well but I'm not sure if the press is that different from the others since the weight is supported by the body.

All in all the dead start where the weight is on the floor it the pins or such is primal and brutal but apart from the deadlift I'm not sure I'm a big fan. They obviously stress the beginning of the lift very well but I'm not sure if the stress isn't too much for the body as a regular piece of programming. But occasionally, yes.

For the greatest caveman strength feel I really like the zercher squat, especially from the knees. The zercher also happens to be one of the better choices for a pin start in my experience.

Regarding programming the lifts both squat and bench at the same time may be a lot for some shoulders.
 
Ah yes. The dead variations. A very suitable name indeed. As far as using the rack and beginning from a dead stop, it has been used successfully by man, alas, there are issues and differences. Let’s start with the press.

There’s a reason I enjoy cleaning my presses as opposed to unracking them. The bar literally goes from the ground to overhead and I find that “cooler.” The clean also gives my body the benefit of preparation in “receiving the load”. Alas, I feel the weight before I need to press it. Of course, you get the same feel unracking the bar, but I’ve always felt this a cumbersome process unless your arms are short enough to actually rack the bar comfortably as opposed to just holding it in the press position which is quite demanding. I also feel the clean jolts my CNS, in a good way, prior to pressing. However, both scenarios still allow the body to “feel” the weight. The rack does not employ this benefit. Instead, you get completely shocked as you begin the lift as everything must turn on instantly to commence the lift. This can be good, if you want to increase RFD, I suppose. The issue with the rack is setting up. It is damn near impossible to know if everything is lined up correctly until you commence the lift. The start can be a real struggle but with practice, it could improve. Another benefit of the rack is that I can be modified so certain ROM can be accentuated, like from the forehead or a start from the chin. As far as the bench press, I despise doing it from the rack. Dave Tate’s with me here. It’s so hard to know if you’re in the correct position and apparently, as Tate has stated, it’s been the e cause of many a pec tear. However, many lifters have used it successfully. Hoornstra, Josh Bryant and even Paul Anderson used it albeit off blocks. It’s mostly been touted as a lift to improve bottom end/starting strength. I’d say pauses would do the same thing and the lifter has the advantage of actually holding the weight, like they would in competition. Racks can be beneficial for variety or to cut off ROM, especially for longer limbed lifters or those where the flexion demands at the bottom are too great. I have it in the back of my mind that floor presses or board presses or reverse band etc are better. It makes my shoulders ache to even think about them having to go from completely relaxed to full force over multiple repetitions. Of course, this doesn’t have to be a ME exercise. Lowering to the racks also causes problems, as the bar is opt to shift around, this messing up the starting position. Pavel mentions in PTTP Pro, in regards to the squat using pins, to gently lay the bar while maintaining tension as opposed to going dead fish and recommencing the lift. I’d probably opt for the slight tension approach as opposed to just letting the bar crash down but once again, both have different benefits. If you want to forego the eccentric, that is an option. Your muscles may be less sore, but I’ve always felt much more fatigued via my CNS from the start from zero to top speed approach.

Now, the squat. Everyone knows Anderson has great success with the rack squat. Many say it’s a great way to overload the movement and also develop starting strength that transfers to the deadlift. There are two main ways of execution. Start as a regular squat and descend to the pins, or start with the bar on the pins. I wholeheartedly detest the latter. The setup is a pain beyond belief. I find the former to transfer better to the competition lift. Oddly in Beyond Bodybuilding, Pavel says to not accentuate the negative. In this way, your soreness won’t be as high along with muscular damage, but your hip flexors will hate you. The rack can be used in conjunction with the two lifts, but I wouldn’t exclude the main variations. Of course for someone who doesn’t want to add mass but wants to develop starting strength, the lack of eccentric could be valuable.

Bill Seno remarked that rack gains come quickly then stall quickly. Bill Starr and Ditillo have used them and said they are great plateau busters. I think they somewhat fall under Dan John’s summation of isometrics. They will work greatly once, but only once.

The press and deadlift are more “real world” because they don’t require any equipment besides the weight. I prefer zercher squats and floor presses as the “rack less alternatives” to bench and squats. As far as starting from the ground, these both fit the bill.
 
Antti said:
Though I'm also uncertain what exactly was the question.
Click to expand...
Ha - no exact question really, was just musing about the barbell and figured I'd ask some experts for their musings.

Philippe Geoffrion said:
The rack does not employ this benefit. Instead, you get completely shocked as you begin the lift as everything must turn on instantly to commence the lift.
Click to expand...
I think this is exactly what got me thinking yesterday - this aspect of having to go from zero to full-bore.

So, what I'm hearing is:
  • Dead start stuff can be good - but will probably destroy you if overused
  • Do some zerchers, maybe off the floor
When you guys have programmed zerchers off the floor, do you go to the floor on every rep, or just the initial setup? I've only done zerchers out of the rack... going to the floor on every rep sounds like it might be brutal (i.e. work capacity training).

Thanks for your thoughts, gentlemen.
 
Antti said:
I'm not sure what it is exactly but there are likely many reasons. Though I'm also uncertain what exactly was the question.

I think the load has a big effect on the feel. Many people deadlift way more than they squat, and I suspect the difference is mental. The same may stand for the presses. It's easy to bail out with an overhead press, and you don't need a spotter. So especially beginners may use relatively more load.

With the presses I also suspect there's a bigger feel of using the whole body with the overhead because the bench technique may be harder to learn and less intuitive.

The dead start does have an effect as well but I'm not sure if the press is that different from the others since the weight is supported by the body.

All in all the dead start where the weight is on the floor it the pins or such is primal and brutal but apart from the deadlift I'm not sure I'm a big fan. They obviously stress the beginning of the lift very well but I'm not sure if the stress isn't too much for the body as a regular piece of programming. But occasionally, yes.

For the greatest caveman strength feel I really like the zercher squat, especially from the knees. The zercher also happens to be one of the better choices for a pin start in my experience.

Regarding programming the lifts both squat and bench at the same time may be a lot for some shoulders.
Click to expand...
I think that's true of pressing or squating more when on a good Smith machine, than with free weights also. You can mentally apply more force to press or squat without worrying about stabilizing the load or bailing out. At least it felt that way to me. I often used to squat same day as bench press or overhead press. But never deadlifted on squat days.
 
WhatWouldHulkDo said:
Ha - no exact question really, was just musing about the barbell and figured I'd ask some experts for their musings.


I think this is exactly what got me thinking yesterday - this aspect of having to go from zero to full-bore.

So, what I'm hearing is:
  • Dead start stuff can be good - but will probably destroy you if overused
  • Do some zerchers, maybe off the floor
When you guys have programmed zerchers off the floor, do you go to the floor on every rep, or just the initial setup? I've only done zerchers out of the rack... going to the floor on every rep sounds like it might be brutal (i.e. work capacity training).

Thanks for your thoughts, gentlemen.
Click to expand...
Rack training can be useful but treat it like an adrenaline shot...use with caution and sparingly. When I say zerchers, usually refer to just the squat. This the deadlift portion is only done once, to set the bar in position. Zerchers from the floor have great benefits, but venture to far away from squat specific to provide carryover. Like a Steinborn squat, you really only want to do the transition part once unless doing singles to practice that specific portion.
 
I think destroy is too strong a word. Just hard on you. Careful doses. But I think it can be very effective for the dose and definitely worth it for some at some time. I think it was great for me.

And like with the deadlift, it doesn't destroy anybody. Or the pin zercher either. I also haven't tried the overhead press straight from pins so I can't comment on it, but the bench from different heights. With it, and actually the deadlift as well, I actually like the bigger range of motion better.

With the zerchers we have to differentiate the squat and the lift, where you don't do both a deadlift and a squat. I'll pass on it. But with the deadlift to a squat, I think the load is always so light for the deadlift that I don't see much sense in doing it more than once. Maybe for work capacity or for some martial arts or what. I don't know. I always preferred marital arts.
 
1/22 07:30

45min treadmill run/walk 3.4m
- 1W 9E (4T 1W)x4 14E 1W
FSPM + front splits

1/22 17:15

Mobility warmup
KB snatch 14x4 40 20m20s
TGU 10x1 32,40,40,48,40

Great day with the bells- felt like I had power to spare with the bulldog. Gotta remember these days on the days where it feels like nothing is working right.

After snatches, TGUs felt so easy, had to crack out the beast. That was... not so easy! But still good. My biggest difficulty with heavy TGUs is really wrist/forearm fatigue. The guys who are doing TGUs with the beast regularly must have steel rebar in their forearms.
 
1/25 07:00

Trifecta
OP 3x5 125#

1/25 17:15

Mobility warmup
SQT 3x5 265#
BP 3x5 195#
Pull-ups 4x5 10#
Grip work
Hang board
Shoulder sequence

Good day all around, felt strong... but, too long. Ran out of time in the morning, so I had to push the shoulder work to the evening. And the evening session ended up going over 90 minutes. Can't do that regularly. So many gainz, so little time...
 
1/26 11:00

45min treadmill run/walk 3.5m
- 1W 9E (9T 1W)x2 14E 1W
Foam rolling, bretzels + forward fold

1/26 17:15

Mobility warmup
KB snatch 24x5 32 36m45s
LTK 3x6
Joint plyo series

Run this morning was great. During the threshold-ish parts (I don't really go all the way to threshold) I was able to maintain a sub-11-minute pace for several minutes before my HR crept up.

Snatches, on the other hand, were a little tough. Started the session feeling a little low energy, and around halfway through my hands started getting raw and form started breaking down. I started taking longer rests, and things held together after that. But I was pretty wiped out afterwards, so I cut out on the ab/joints work a little early.

Here's a little tip that an experienced lifter like myself has no excuse to forget: if you're going to swing a kettlebell, pull your dang pants up. If the crotch is riding too low, it really messes with the backswing. ?
 
No training on Wednesday, for a number of reasons, including that I just didn't feel like it. Thursday was a bit of a messed up schedule day, but I got 'er done.

1/28 12:00

Trifecta

1/28 14:00

OP 3x5 125#
Shoulder sequence

1/28 16:15

Mobility warmup
SQT 3x5 265#
BP 3x5 195#
DL 1x5 370#
Pull-ups 3x5 10#
Grip work

Another victory over stagnation.
 
WhatWouldHulkDo said:
1/26 11:00

45min treadmill run/walk 3.5m
- 1W 9E (9T 1W)x2 14E 1W
Foam rolling, bretzels + forward fold

1/26 17:15

Mobility warmup
KB snatch 24x5 32 36m45s
LTK 3x6
Joint plyo series

Run this morning was great. During the threshold-ish parts (I don't really go all the way to threshold) I was able to maintain a sub-11-minute pace for several minutes before my HR crept up.

Snatches, on the other hand, were a little tough. Started the session feeling a little low energy, and around halfway through my hands started getting raw and form started breaking down. I started taking longer rests, and things held together after that. But I was pretty wiped out afterwards, so I cut out on the ab/joints work a little early.

Here's a little tip that an experienced lifter like myself has no excuse to forget: if you're going to swing a kettlebell, pull your dang pants up. If the crotch is riding too low, it really messes with the backswing. ?
Click to expand...
Ha, thought that only happened to me. I wear sweats long after the little waist-ties break. Going to have see if they sell suspenders for loose sweats for old guys. SFOG's(susp. 4 old guys)
 
Got in some light skiing with the kids on Saturday, no training.

1/31 09:00

60min treadmill run/walk 4.5m
- 1W 50E 1W (0.33ST 1W)x6
Tac frog, pumps + QL stretch

Did a pushup test in the afternoon: x22. I've noticed that picking up the bench press again really hasn't done much for my pushup rep max. Did some Googling today on the subject, and came across an answer that makes sense to me; once you get into your pushup rep max, the fast-twitch muscles (which is primarily what you work in the bench press) have faded out, and you're working the slow twitch muscles. To up your rep max, you gotta get the slow-twitch muscles some work. Seems like a reasonable theory, anyway. Planning to try to run the USNA push-up program (by SFs own @mprevost), see if I can make any progress there without interfering with my other work. Might be too much, who knows...

I've also been doing some pondering about weight loss - something I am not currently doing. For a month or so I've largely taken myself off calorie restrictions - still occasionally doing IF, but not religiously - because I felt like I was starting to wear down. And I think eating more has really benefited me for now - I feel a lot better, seem to be recovering faster. My weight is up about 5# from where I was, but it's been pretty stable there, rather than continuous gain. And my running in the last few weeks seems to have made a little jump in spite of carrying the extra 5#. They seem to be 5 "good" pounds.

The difference in mechanics between gaining strength and losing weight is interesting. In both cases, we're trying to force our bodies out of equilibrium. With strength gains, the fundamental idea is to increase the demands on your body just enough to inspire it to remodel itself better than before. But with strength gains, there simply is no guarantee - sure, dedication and a good program can give you a very good chance of getting what you want, but in the end the remodeling process just isn't always predictable. Sometimes it takes more, sometimes less... and sometimes the body just doesn't respond, at least not the way you want. And with strength gains, more stimulus doesn't necessarily mean more adaptation - more stimulus instead may cause break down.

With weight loss, the process is actually guaranteed to work. If you are consuming less energy than your body uses, you absolutely 100% will lose weight. And more stimulus is guaranteed to give you more adaptation - it's just a matter of physics. Of course, for most people (myself included) the weight loss stimulus is far more mentally difficult to cope with than the strength gain stimulus. And the other problem is, you might not necessarily like the adaptation you get. When faced with an energy deficit, to try to find equilibrium again the body will do the easiest things first. It will start tearing down structures that aren't energy efficient, like your 20" guns. It will stop using as much resources to repair all the damage you did during your lifting session - an excellent feedback path for the body to force you to quit doing damage while its worried about starving. That's kind of the feeling that I was getting - that my body was trying to force me to lower my energy expenditure to match what I was consuming. Of course, what most of us really want is fat loss, not just weight loss. And I'm coming to the conclusion that fat loss is more complicated beast to tame.

There's an article on T-nation that I've reread many times over the last couple years:

www.t-nation.com

How to Train Your Metabolism

by Dr. Jade Teta Your Guide to Metabolic Flexibility You don't want a sluggish metabolism... or even a fast metabolism. You want a flexible metabolism capable of switching fuels rapidly. Here's how to get it. A Metaphor for Metabolic Flexibility I’m driving around Los Angeles and I’m annoyed...
www.t-nation.com www.t-nation.com

I think I have to come up with some way of "cycling" how I'm eating, and maybe how I'm training along with it. Can't do the same thing forever and expect continuous results, have to disrupt equilibrium somehow... and in the right way...
 
2/1 07:00

Trifecta
OP 3x3 140#
Shoulder sequence

2/1 17:00

Mobility warmup
SQT 3x3 295#
BP 3x3 215#
Pullups 4x3 40#
Grip work
Hang board

Little bit of a tough day with the lifts, but made it through.

Ponder for the day: calf training. I tore an Achilles tendon many years ago, and my calf muscles never came back the same. My wife is fond of saying I have one calf, and one cow (the big, strong one that didn't get torn). For the most part, I've never found it restrictive, but I absolutely notice it in karate kata; it's much harder to hit heel-raised position with the bad calf than with the good. So I've been doing one daily set of calf raises to try to even it out. But, like pushups, I'm coming to the conclusion that 1 set a day won't do it; need some more density. But, I tried that today... and decided that calf work before squats might not be a good idea - felt like it messed with the squats. But... my evening session is already too long, don't have time to tack more on at the end. There's never enough time!
 
When I do specific calf training I pretty much always do it at the end of a session.
The other strategy I have used is GTG style.

I rarely train calf’s these days unless I am prepping for something Big.
 
2/3 07:00

45min treadmill run/walk 3.4m
- 1W 35E 1W (0.33ST 1W)x6
FSPM + front splits

Tonight marked the triumphant return of... volleyball! State COVID numbers have been going down, so they've been allowing places to open with more capacity. Unfortunately, my wife wasn't able to join us - she got her second dose of the COVID vaccine yesterday, and the side effects of the second dose are tougher than the first.

I played OK, particularly given how long its been since I played, but we got smoked by the other team. Now, I'm a pretty big, strong guy... but tonight there was a 5'-tall woman on the other team who was serving that ball 2x as hard as I was. Humility is one of the many lessons of competition. ?
 
WhatWouldHulkDo said:
2/3 07:00

45min treadmill run/walk 3.4m
- 1W 35E 1W (0.33ST 1W)x6
FSPM + front splits

Tonight marked the triumphant return of... volleyball! State COVID numbers have been going down, so they've been allowing places to open with more capacity. Unfortunately, my wife wasn't able to join us - she got her second dose of the COVID vaccine yesterday, and the side effects of the second dose are tougher than the first.

I played OK, particularly given how long its been since I played, but we got smoked by the other team. Now, I'm a pretty big, strong guy... but tonight there was a 5'-tall woman on the other team who was serving that ball 2x as hard as I was. Humility is one of the many lessons of competition. ?
Click to expand...
My daughter played high school and jr. olympic club volleyball, and we did a lot of traveling to tournaments here in eastern US. These teenage girls were killing the ball.
 
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