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Kettlebell AXE Training Thread

A different WTHE than I am accustomed to. ​

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Today as I was setting up for my AXE swings I was taking a moment to squat and sense my glute activation. I noticed differences in sensation based on where my feet were placed.

I remembered a recent discussion here on glute activation, and whether the muscles are correctly activating based on your chosen movements. So I thought I'd Take a second to consider that.​
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And I was thinking about the difference between sumo and conventional deadlift form; and there was a discussion here, about how the differences have a bit to do with hip structures. I remember that I had some good experiences with testing sumo but I never practiced it regularly assuming it was "the easy way out" of training conventional. So all of my PttP programming was based on conventional deadlifts​
​
On one occasion I "accidentally" discovered that wider stances seemed to contribute to higher snatch performances. and so for a time, (for about 3-4 months out of the 5-6 months total cycle) I adopted it for my snatch training. I got stronger and more confident snatching the 32kg bell, at the time.​
​
With some of those thoughts floating in my head, today, I took a wider sumo stance, squatted down, looked for sensations of stretch tension, and stability, and then stood up. did it a few times to find something that felt a little better. I ended up with my heels at least a couple inches out beyond my shoulders, and my toes pointed out at 45 degrees off-axis. and started the timer.

I could not believe the difference it made in today's session.

RPE ↓​
Recovery ↑​
Time per set ↓​
Rep Speed ↑​
Lower Back involvement ↓​
Clenched Tension in the Plank (Thighs+Glutes+Abs) ↑​
​
I have found exploring foot placement to become important from time to time, maybe once a year or once a season. Especially, for me, to avoid putting some unwelcome forces on my left knee, but I don't remember it "helping" this much before. My knee feels great, my lower back feels great, and my glutes, hams, and quads, all feel great. Really interesting experience. A huge contrast from earlier this week.

So, I would say, from time to time, give it another look. move your feet around, and take note of how it effects you and your work.
 
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@Adachi , after reading your post, I decided to try a wider stance, with a bit more turnout, in my Speed Metal snatches. Everything felt better! Even my back felt better, and it's been bugging me lately. I've been stretching more, so I'm sure that factors in. Still, the snatches felt more crisp and powerful. At the same time, my body felt better. A win-win!

Thanks for sharing that idea!
 
some questions:
  1. variations of swing, snatch and jerk are mentioned as the go to exercises. Are heavy-ish cleans also an option?
  2. a follow-up question is - if one wants to increase their 1h KBC&J what is a better schedule: a) once a week only jerks (of course there's one mandatory clean before one does the jerks), once a week cleans with a heavier bell b) both lifts during one session, twice a week (0:00 jerk left, 1:00 jerk right, 2:00 clean left 3:00 clean right, repeat).
  3. are plyometrics in conflict with this protocol, or can they be done before the session?
 
Pasibrzuch said:
some questions:
  1. variations of swing, snatch and jerk are mentioned as the go to exercises. Are heavy-ish cleans also an option?
  2. a follow-up question is - if one wants to increase their 1h KBC&J what is a better schedule: a) once a week only jerks (of course there's one mandatory clean before one does the jerks), once a week cleans with a heavier bell b) both lifts during one session, twice a week (0:00 jerk left, 1:00 jerk right, 2:00 clean left 3:00 clean right, repeat).
  3. are plyometrics in conflict with this protocol, or can they be done before the session?
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1. Yes cleans can be done with this protocol if you want to work on cleans

2. KBSF has in its c&j plan to run the movements together and apart(then put them back together later). I would just follow that, to work on c&j.

3. As the book discusses, don't limit AXE training to only swings. It can also be used for other things, including plyometrics.
 
Adachi said:
A different WTHE than I am accustomed to. ​

View attachment 24082
Today as I was setting up for my AXE swings I was taking a moment to squat and sense my glute activation. I noticed differences in sensation based on where my feet were placed.

I remembered a recent discussion here on glute activation, and whether the muscles are correctly activating based on your chosen movements. So I thought I'd Take a second to consider that.​
​
And I was thinking about the difference between sumo and conventional deadlift form; and there was a discussion here, about how the differences have a bit to do with hip structures. I remember that I had some good experiences with testing sumo but I never practiced it regularly assuming it was "the easy way out" of training conventional. So all of my PttP programming was based on conventional deadlifts​
​
On one occasion I "accidentally" discovered that wider stances seemed to contribute to higher snatch performances. and so for a time, (for about 3-4 months out of the 5-6 months total cycle) I adopted it for my snatch training. I got stronger and more confident snatching the 32kg bell, at the time.​
​
With some of those thoughts floating in my head, today, I took a wider sumo stance, squatted down, looked for sensations of stretch tension, and stability, and then stood up. did it a few times to find something that felt a little better. I ended up with my heels at least a couple inches out beyond my shoulders, and my toes pointed out at 45 degrees off-axis. and started the timer.

I could not believe the difference it made in today's session.

RPE ↓​
Recovery ↑​
Time per set ↓​
Rep Speed ↑​
Lower Back involvement ↓​
Clenched Tension in the Plank (Thighs+Glutes+Abs) ↑​
​
I have found exploring foot placement to become important from time to time, maybe once a year or once a season. Especially, for me, to avoid putting some unwelcome forces on my left knee, but I don't remember it "helping" this much before. My knee feels great, my lower back feels great, and my glutes, hams, and quads, all feel great. Really interesting experience. A huge contrast from earlier this week.

So, I would say, from time to time, give it another look. move your feet around, and take note of how it effects you and your work.
Click to expand...

This is really interesting. I've discovered through Original Strength work that a specific alignment between my legs and pelvis activate my entire lower body like nothing else. It's a matter of literal centimetres, but if I corkscrew my legs outward to just the right position and pull my pelvis to my sternum just so... I get some real full body power like I've never felt before.
 
I just dropped into this thread because I wanted to say what a difference short breaks make. I've decided to do a Pat Quinn workout for the next few months and he's really big on HIIT glycolytic work. I'm not really doing AXE, but I've tweaked his HIIT finishers so that I take as many short rests as I need for every set to be as explosive as possible and, man, what a difference it makes. I've always done HIIT as a grueling push through lactic acid and failure, grinding myself right into the ground, but this feels really good. I'm made a few other tweaks and I'm running his entire program as a power program and I'm loving it so far.
 
Grevlingfot said:
This is awesome. Went from hating one hand swing to looking forward to every workout. Started one month ago at 20kg to set my technique right. Already at 32kg very soon at 36. Looking at you Beast!
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The worst ballistic lift for me is the 1h swing...

It made my lower back hurt because I wouldn't "finish" the lift with my glutes. It tore the skin off of my hands because I wasn't taking a looser grip. It gave me a bicep flexor forearm overuse injury because I wasn't taking the slack out of the work arm before the hike.

I sure am glad I'm putting the time into the 1h swing. I am unglad that I didn't take it seriously 12 or so years ago when I started working with kettlebells.

It took me over a month to learn the movement(all axe sessions), and 4/30 felt easy 3 days ago.

I will say, the primary difference for me going from 36kg to 48kg swings is that I have to fight the urge to maintain full body tension during the downswing.

Beast swing encouragement to you!
 
Current AXE
32 kg 1-hand x 6's for 24 minutes.

Today's quasi Double Espresso
Timeless Simple as 32 kg 1-hand x 10's OTM. Not precisely what the book suggests, which would be 6's on the :30. Nice to do 10's again. For second half, HR was around the Zone 4/5 border, which is roughly 90% max, and in a very narrow range, 157-161, basically no peaks and no recovery.

The effect felt right - was still talking, counting down the last 5 second to each new set out loud for my two fellow swingers.

-S-
 
Question to all: I completed my first practice session with H2H swings using the 32kg, achieving 4/30 OTM. Per the book, this is too light and recommends going heavier for the second session. My question is, would it be more beneficial to bump up to the 36kg OR should I bump the rep scheme to 6 using the 32kg?
 
JamesPTA said:
Question to all: I completed my first practice session with H2H swings using the 32kg, achieving 4/30 OTM. Per the book, this is too light and recommends going heavier for the second session. My question is, would it be more beneficial to bump up to the 36kg OR should I bump the rep scheme to 6 using the 32kg?
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36kg, unless you feel particularly fatigued in your hips, legs, and/or grips or if you feel you barely made it. It rarely hurts to take it slow ... but you also make progress slower.
 
I know I break the program when adding or removing exercises. But I recently got semi-injured in an overhead press in the IC “program” and started looking at alternative things to do while that heal.

I was alternating IC and axe every day. (I always aim to practice every day - life always comes in the way so natural days off will come)

Switched completely over to AXE swing and snatch alternating the days.

But I wanted to keep some pressing and i started experimenting with adding a dip to the axe swing day. So 4-6 swings + 1-2 dips.

What I noticed was that it actually somehow helped me get ready for the next set. It feels like adding a press to a set of ballistic exercise evens that out and removes some tensions.

Even noticed that when I did IC basic and adding a snatch at the end of the set.

While experimenting i found out that adding 2 reps of dips is max. Over 2 reps resulted in a bad next set for me.

Anyone have a take of this?
 
Does the push press qualify as AXE or do you need to do full jerks? I feel I am profficient at pp but wondering are you missing something that you get in the jerk to qualify for AXE status?
 
I'm curious to know if how many others, if any, have found the transition from 4's to 6's a big jump and used 5's instead.

I ask because I've found my average HR with 4's is only in the middle of my Zone 2, but with 6's it's been in the middle of Zone 4. After a couple of sessions of 6's, I just went back to 4's for 30 minutes and again it felt great but yielded an average HR of 114 and my max is at least 179. I am aiming for an average around 10 bpm higher or around the Zone 2-3 border. With 6's, at least the 2 or 3 sessions I've tried so far, my HR basically doesn't recover - it's doesn't go up much, either, just kind of flat-lines.

The weight is 32 kg and I'm 70 kg. My current plan is to try 5's next time to see how that goes. I suppose another option would be to alternate 4's and 6's. I am using 1-hand swings.

Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions.

-S-
 
With one hand swings I think adding the single rep is worth exploring.
Have you tried H2H swings ? I like them much more than expected.
 
Steve Freides said:
I'm curious to know if how many others, if any, have found the transition from 4's to 6's a big jump and used 5's instead.

I ask because I've found my average HR with 4's is only in the middle of my Zone 2, but with 6's it's been in the middle of Zone 4. After a couple of sessions of 6's, I just went back to 4's for 30 minutes and again it felt great but yielded an average HR of 114 and my max is at least 179. I am aiming for an average around 10 bpm higher or around the Zone 2-3 border. With 6's, at least the 2 or 3 sessions I've tried so far, my HR basically doesn't recover - it's doesn't go up much, either, just kind of flat-lines.

The weight is 32 kg and I'm 70 kg. My current plan is to try 5's next time to see how that goes. I suppose another option would be to alternate 4's and 6's. I am using 1-hand swings.

Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions.

-S-
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Qualitatively, it feels like it has been a big jump for me. I don’t use a HR monitor, but sets of 6 take more out of me. I started with 14 sets. After four sessions, I advanced… to 16 sets. There just wasn’t the big breakthrough in work capacity I experienced with sets of 4. Progress is still going slow with 6s.

I figured it’s a me problem. Longer sets are harder for me. I just didn’t expect the cutoff for “this is hard now” to be from 4 to 6.
 
I have been interested in how my musculature feels unscathed at 6 rep sets with the 32kg bell. Each set feels easy. But the session feels a little tough.

The source of RPE scoring at this point is entirely perceived a heart lungs cardio sensation. Although there may be peripheral adaptations at the muscles to improve that situation.
 
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