Whosonfirst
Level 8 Valued Member
Giving my own response: AIRBALL.
Kettlebell Does anyone else think the "big jumps" of kettlebells is a little fishy?
- Thread starter Eric Wilson
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Timmer C
Level 6 Valued Member
In S & S Revised, Pavel says not to use the toilet during training, which has to be tongue in cheek. (Soiling one's self during a heavy get up and slipping as a result would be high torture.) The fact that he combines solid training advice with occasional absurdities reminds me that in the end, I have to take responsibility for my own training decisions. Perhaps that is his point.
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
Haven't read the whole thread, but no one is saying you shouldn't go up in increments, it's just that it's hard to find places with all the increments available. I'd love to have a 28kg and a 36kg bell, but it just isn't quite worth it. The 24 and the 32 do the job well enough.
Somehow I haven't chimed in yet on this thread. I remember commenting on the "big jumps" concept, but when I searched for it I found it in a different thread: Increase weight by larger than 10%?
I see kettlebell culture points (such as "man up against heavy weight") like movement cues. If they serve you, then use them. If they don't, ignore them and find others that do. But all the ideas and concepts and folklore do come from somewhere... and it's always good to explore before dismissing so we understand if they do have any value for us. Or if they don't, at least we understand why. So to that end, it's an interesting discussion.
Anyway, @Eric Wilson, I'm glad you're still training, and making progress!
I see kettlebell culture points (such as "man up against heavy weight") like movement cues. If they serve you, then use them. If they don't, ignore them and find others that do. But all the ideas and concepts and folklore do come from somewhere... and it's always good to explore before dismissing so we understand if they do have any value for us. Or if they don't, at least we understand why. So to that end, it's an interesting discussion.
Anyway, @Eric Wilson, I'm glad you're still training, and making progress!
Adam R Mundorf
Level 6 Valued Member
Than you are not a Soviet Superman!
Sean M
Level 7 Valued Member
In Soviet Union, toilet uses you!
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
A thought this triggered in me is that kettlebells are not the tool for heavy weight lifting - barbells are for that. This is another reason I'm not so interested in the incremental jumps in weight with kettlebells. To me kettlebells have two special qualities 1. The swing/snatch feature is great for endurance strength and intensive cardio training. 2. Its grip makes it ergonomic for TGUs and presses. Overall it's good for cardio, endurance strength and asymmetrical load strengths. These are all qualities that depend on the intensity of your workouts more than how heavy the weight is. I'd prefer a 28kg for the ROP inspired workouts I do and a 36kg for the S&S workouts, but honestly just putting a bit more intensity into the 24 and the 32 does the trick for me. I think at some point it just isn't feasible for most normal humans to really push the upper limits of heaviness with the main kettlebell exercises. To go further it's safer and more practical to use barbells, which are well balanced and even.
Thanks for reply.
The 10x10 2H swings with the 24kg are challenging, but not too demanding. My plan is to do these 2H swings exclusively for a week or two (to help acclimatise to the new weight).
After that, my plan is to do 1H swings: 16kg, 24kg, 16kg, 16kg, 16kg.
For the 16kg sets - as they are relatively easy, I'll do them "Simply Sinister" style - combining 1H swings with C&P (x2) and TGU L+R (I was doing this method whilst waiting for 24kg to become available).
The Simply Sinister Training Plan | StrongFirst
Managing the suck of training to reach Sinister was not the problem. Finding time consistently to do this was. Thus, the Simply Sinister program was born.www.strongfirst.com
For the 24kg sets - I'll try standard 1H swings. Failing that, I'll try 1H dead swings. Failing even that, I'll just do these 2H and test transitioning to 1H at the start of each week.
The TGU is wobbly, but I'm just able to do the S&S prescribed 16kg, 24kg, 16kg, 16kg, 16kg. I've been able to do all 16kg sets without any rest so I have to consciously pause at each phase of a 16kg rep to slow it way down. Dont have that problem with 24kg - these are very slow and require a lot of concentration.
Thanks again.
I do SSTP roughly once a week, it's a great way to develop the ability to manage the suck of the timed standard
The other s snd s variant I like is the 5 one arm swings+5 snatches+reverse getup which I picked up from Louka Kurcer..
Eric Wilson
Level 6 Valued Member
I thought I was going to leave this thread, but this is such an excellent point, that I can't help another comment.
If I had first developed the strength to bench my bodyweight for reps, and maybe barbell press 75% bw, then my experience in learning to press a kettlebell would probably have been very different.
As it happens, I don't have any access to a barbell, and I'm using kettlebells and a pull-up bar as my primary tool for building strength, beginning from being pretty weak. Which makes sense in my situation (I like to workout at home -- kettlebells are small and affordable), but creates a disconnect between my use of kettlebells and the way others use them, and thus the way other people talk about them.
In other words, when I hear someone say "there's no need for a kb of size X", it rubs me the wrong way, and feels dishonest, because a size X kb is a very useful tool for my goals. But it isn't dishonest, it just is speaking to a different context -- a context that is more common than mine.
So that's very helpful -- I shouldn't expect people to always or usually talk about kettlebells in a way that fits my experience and unique combination of factors.
@Eric Wilson, a little tough love is in order.
Why are you here if what we teach "rubs [you] the wrong way", and "feels dishonest," and is "fishy?"
None of us is as unique as you say you are as concerns strength training. Doctor, movement screen, strong.
You need a teacher, you need a teacher, and you need a teacher, and then you need a teacher, and then you still need a teacher. We all do.
At StrongFirst, we all remain students and have teachers even as some of us are teachers ourselves. Maybe a single session with an instructor is all you need for now, but you _need_ instruction, in person (or whatever the next-best substitute is in these pandemic-crazed days). There's a saying, "Don't knock it until you've tried it." If you haven't been successful at teaching yourself from our materials - and it's clear you haven't been - then "tried it" means getting some hands-on instruction.
Our policy is that "we don't say you're wrong," but you're saying _we're_ wrong, on _our_ forum, and we're out of suggestions.
Thread closed.
-S-
Why are you here if what we teach "rubs [you] the wrong way", and "feels dishonest," and is "fishy?"
None of us is as unique as you say you are as concerns strength training. Doctor, movement screen, strong.
You need a teacher, you need a teacher, and you need a teacher, and then you need a teacher, and then you still need a teacher. We all do.
At StrongFirst, we all remain students and have teachers even as some of us are teachers ourselves. Maybe a single session with an instructor is all you need for now, but you _need_ instruction, in person (or whatever the next-best substitute is in these pandemic-crazed days). There's a saying, "Don't knock it until you've tried it." If you haven't been successful at teaching yourself from our materials - and it's clear you haven't been - then "tried it" means getting some hands-on instruction.
Our policy is that "we don't say you're wrong," but you're saying _we're_ wrong, on _our_ forum, and we're out of suggestions.
Thread closed.
-S-
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