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Kettlebell "Enter the Kettlebell" Questions

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@Kozushi; it's nice that you weigh things and search answers well/a lot. But still one can get confused when there's too much possibilities.
I definitely still feel confused about weightlifting. I feel like I've started mapping a new territory and I've mapped out a clear area right around where my base camp is, but there is a huge misty land all around me that I know nothing about.

Evidently, I want to look and feel good, and live healthy and long. It's amazing what certain exercises (e.g. getups, presses, swings) do to help with these goals, and it's amazing how bad some other exercises are at achieving these goals (e.g. curls, situps).
 
Same here. When I was younger all I wanted was huge muscles. When I noticed that it isn't gonna happen without chemicals, I just started to train to become strong as a natural as I have always been. Trying to live long, happy and healthy life won.
 
Same here. When I was younger all I wanted was huge muscles. When I noticed that it isn't gonna happen without chemicals, I just started to train to become strong as a natural as I have always been. Trying to live long, happy and healthy life won.
Also, to add to what you wrote, I figured that I'd have to do painful, lengthy workouts with about a dozen different exercises targeting different specific muscle groups. "Isolate" they all used to say. I said "to heck with it" and decided to hate weightlifting and focus instead on hiking, jogging, judo.

Amazingly, I found out late last year that informed intelligent weightlifting is very different than what I had assumed, and it never had been like that. I'm mystified at how something as simple as a press movement can tone up your whole upper body so you look fit and feel strong. I'm also mystified at the way weightlifting fights disease! That's WEIRD! I haven't gotten sick since I started weightlifting (any more than a light sore throat a few times) whereas before taking up weightlifting last year I was sick CONSTANTLY!

And now, S&S since January - something simple (and sinister, haha) that I can do every day and it keeps my heart pumping heartily, my body fit and strong, and diseases far away from me. What more could anyone ask for in a daily activity that takes about 20 minutes, and is super fun to do! All my health woes DEFEATED! WOW! That's crazy good!
 
@Kozushi; Yes, no more Barbie&Ken "feel the pump" isolated two hour training here eather. Same thing with the supplements, like protein powder etc. Just a waste of money.
 
@Kozushi; Yes, no more Barbie&Ken "feel the pump" isolated two hour training here eather. Same thing with the supplements, like protein powder etc. Just a waste of money.
Yes, if you look at the supplements, they're just egg extract anyhow. So you might as well just eat eggs! They tell you to mix them with milk, so DRINK MILK! Hahaha! I'm a big, strong, fit, healthy guy with just S&S and FOOD.

Like I wrote above, I'm a mostly although no longer totally confused beginner at weightlifting, and therefore I have not tried out many different weightlifting systems (and I wouldn't want to slander anyone's system anyhow) BUT, Strongfirst is the only system I've yet found that isn't full of crap, in fact no crap whatsoever.

What I like are these points:

1. They constantly evolve and improve and do so openly and give credit where it's due, openly explaining their thinking and even their doubts about things all along.
2. They write it all up in books that are affordable, entertaining, and detailed.
3. They cut the exercises down to as few as possible.
4. They promote getting stronger and not just getting "fit" (which you get anyways if you get stronger).
5. They link exercise and practical uses of strength like manual labour, self defence, athletics, and warfare.
6. They're international in their thinking, i.e. vast and expansive, drawing on centuries of wisdom from all over. They include whatever works from Europe, Asia, America, etc. I've never seen a system mix Taoist yin and yang philosophy with kettlebells, communist doctrine, history, rifle practice, weapons research, and circus shows!
7. Most importantly, the stuff actually works and the proof is in the pudding. I'm no longer fat and I'm terrifyingly strong, all from S&S (and NW).

The NW system was a godsend for me on business trips and holidays this past summer. Evidently, kettlebells are better but when I don't have access to them, the NW routine is just spectacularly good!

And I'll add that on top of all that, it's a fascinating hobby in its own right.
 
@Kozushi; you wrote good text above. Yes, it's a shame what modern fitness industry does for people. I mean kettle bell is at least three hundred years old and old-school-strongmen like Pyotr Kryloff and others didn't have modern supplements. They still were lean, strong and athletic. We are privileged to have Strong First, which concentrates on basics that works and keeps on giving.
 
My Canadian ancestors didn't need weightlifting since they were carrying around farm stuff or portaging with canoes, let alone paddling them along rivers. As people stopped doing farm labour or hunting over the past several centuries as things got more civilized, they needed a replacement to stay fit and this is why I figure the kettlebell is only 300 years old. Benjamin Franklin worked out with weights - I don't know if they were kettlebells or some other kind of thing, but he did work out with them, and that is about 300 years ago too. The Persians have always used those heavy clubs and a weird chain bow shaped thing for weightlifting. Anyhow, picking up stuff (like even something as simple as a pail of water) and carrying it around was just part and pacel of human life for the past 2 million years or longer. That's why we have hands - to pick stuff up and carry it around. If it's not part of your daily routine as part of your job, you really need to do it as an exercise - and how to do it is the trick. Without Strongfirst's books I'd have no idea, and I'm not about to go walking around with a canoe on my head trying to figure it out on my own.
 
If I may piggyback off the past two replies. Modern fitness "experts" who espouse the "pumping" methods of training kind of annoy me. As a retired law enforcement officer I used to see several things my agency's gym ... please forgive my sarcasm:

1) Guys training with the same weights they did for several years and wondering why they weren't improving
2) Training for an hour on "arm" day.....but yet not able to do a pull-up
3) Never training with heavy overhead movements because someone said they're bad for the shoulders....they did a lot of benching....but despite no overhead work, they developed bad shoulders, hmmm
4) Getting fatter despite endless hours of cardio machine work.....and overuse injuries to the ankles and knees
5) The use of Dumbbells....the small ones for those all important tricep kickbacks
6) The belief that a routine that a drug enhanced and genetically gifted individual with no other care in the world but training, eating and sleeping will work for them

Training like the pioneers in the strength world trained works wonders. Today's trainee too often wants to have a muscular physique and doesn't care about being strong. That's frankly ridiculous in my mind. The oldtime strongmen trained to be strong and as a result or a side effect, if you will, developed muscular physiques.

Ok, rant over
 
It was reasons like that that I despised weightlifting until late last year. All those kind of guys who showed up at the judo club were terribly weak and I crushed them, in spite of the fact that I lifted NO weights, ever, and in spite of several of them having some showy muscles (although most were just fat looking). A few truly strong guys showed up over the past 30 years, I mean a few, like TWO guys, who were weightlifters and actually strong. One was 100 pounds heavier and a foot taller than me, and a wrestler and football player, and another was a university-prof type who was about my own weight. The bigger guy I just assumed was simply bigger, but the other guy mystified me, leading me to start to look into weightlifting, and me ending up ultimately following Strongfirst.

Weightlifting is complicated stuff as I'm coming to realize. It's a form of medicine actually, and based a lot on theory, trial and error over the past few hundred or thousand years. It's like Oriental medicine - it works although it's not always clear scientifically speaking why. Anyhow, I'm thrilled I'm getting somewhere with it. Darn interesting!
 
As a further testament to what @Anna C said. I finished the Simple goal, then started A+A snatches with a 24kg. Felt great on the shoulders, and I've had shoulder surgery. Of course, my shoulders have come a long way in the past couple of years before I started snatching. My snatch form needs a little more work so that is really why I stopped the program, to focus on technique for a while. I am currently doing an ROP C&P/A+A swing style program. I am swinging the 40kg, 1 handed. Never done that before until after the A+A snatches. I only weigh 160 so its not like I can cheat that 40kg bell up to chest height..I'm a lanky fella. So...sometimes I think..once I get this snatch form down tight, why swing ever again? Al Ciampa and I have had numerous private discussions about the motor control and postural benefits of snatches over swings. For those who have healthy, pain free shoulder range of motion, sufficient shoulder conditioning, and good technique (gee wiz, that eliminates quite a few people actually)...it's a superior exercise IMO. But it's hard to pair A+A snatches with other upper body dominant exercises because they wear out your arms. If you snatch heavy..everything else kinda takes a back seat..unless your name is harald motz;)
 
As a further testament to what @Anna C said. I finished the Simple goal, then started A+A snatches with a 24kg. Felt great on the shoulders, and I've had shoulder surgery. Of course, my shoulders have come a long way in the past couple of years before I started snatching. My snatch form needs a little more work so that is really why I stopped the program, to focus on technique for a while. I am currently doing an ROP C&P/A+A swing style program. I am swinging the 40kg, 1 handed. Never done that before until after the A+A snatches. I only weigh 160 so its not like I can cheat that 40kg bell up to chest height..I'm a lanky fella. So...sometimes I think..once I get this snatch form down tight, why swing ever again? Al Ciampa and I have had numerous private discussions about the motor control and postural benefits of snatches over swings. For those who have healthy, pain free shoulder range of motion, sufficient shoulder conditioning, and good technique (gee wiz, that eliminates quite a few people actually)...it's a superior exercise IMO. But it's hard to pair A+A snatches with other upper body dominant exercises because they wear out your arms. If you snatch heavy..everything else kinda takes a back seat..unless your name is harald motz;)
Interesting you mention this because last evening I did lots of C&P with the 24kg and 32kg, and then took a break and started doing snatches with the 24kg. I did 10 with each hand and had quite had enough! Yikes! I have to pull it harder from the start than swings. It's interesting that you're so light yet were able to single hand swing the 40kg only after spending time snatching with the 24kg. Very interesting, and it gives me some ideas.
 
I have one question about ROP programme and I need to consult it with the others.
Whenever it is time to switch to a bigger kettlebell weight for clean&press I have huge problem to stick to Pavel's advice and start the ladders from the beginning doing 5x1,2,3 repetitions (30 reps or less) on a hard session day. Instead I stay on 75 reps, which is 5x1,2,3,4,5and slowly include a bigger kettlebell from hard session to hard session. i simply change ratio of lighter to heavier kettlebells (e.x. 70reps 20kg and 5reps with 24kg, 65reps 20kg, 10reps with 24kg). I just can't imagine myself going back to doing 5x1rep, even with a heavier kettlebell (on a light session day) as it seems insufficient. Is what I am doing really a big no-no? Or maybe it doesn't matter that much as long as I don't reach the plateu stage?
 
@Artur, welcome to StrongFirst.

You can't go forward in a straight line forever - it just doesn't work. You're right that going back to much lower volume is "insufficient" - that's part of the point.

You may do what you're doing, and it may work out just fine for you because you are still changing important things, but varying the volume isn't something that, for best results, should happen only as you ramp into a program; it should happen along the way as well. If you're doing the L/M/H rotation of the ROP, you are getting sufficient variety of volume on a daily basis but not more than that. If will work, but not as well for most people, most of the time.

The exception to all the above is if you're a beginner - everything works for beginners because they aren't anywhere near their limits. But as you advance, you will find variety in volume on a daily weekly, monthly, and even longer basis is one of the keys to continued progress.

-S-
 
Arthur, I have found that in jumping up bell sizes I actually do better in reducing the volume and building back up. This became more apparent to me when I jumped from the 32 to the 36. It gave my body a chance to adjust to the heavier weight.

I found that I could "own" the given weight better in the long run.
 
Okay, so I can C&P the 32kg five times or more per side if I alternate sides (giving me short bits of rest therefore between hands.) I ought to be starting the ROP programme with the 32kg for the preses then, right?
 
@Kozushi I would say use the 28 for now and emphasize precision on each rep.. ypi can always compress rest periods when it gets too easy.

If memory serves me right you do judo correct?

the emphasis on precision of technique in judo applies to kettlebells too
 
Regarding some of the earlier posts, I just want to offer a defense for those that train differently from SF methods. I think many exercise for aesthetics and the other methods mentioned above can work just fine for that. All those superfluous things like curls, etc. can serve a purpose and have their place in even the most advanced and novice athletes arsenal alike.

However, the SF way gets everyone 80% in every direction and includes strength along with aesthetics and I think many simply don't know about these methods. I don't think the non-SFers made a decision against SF methods, they just don't know.

It's our responsibility to let our light shine and educate those that simply don't know different.
 
Regarding some of the earlier posts, I just want to offer a defense for those that train differently from SF methods. I think many exercise for aesthetics and the other methods mentioned above can work just fine for that. All those superfluous things like curls, etc. can serve a purpose and have their place in even the most advanced and novice athletes arsenal alike.

However, the SF way gets everyone 80% in every direction and includes strength along with aesthetics and I think many simply don't know about these methods. I don't think the non-SFers made a decision against SF methods, they just don't know.

It's our responsibility to let our light shine and educate those that simply don't know different.

Its definitely our duty to educate. We will never be able to save everyone, but we must never stop tryingg
 
BroMo I do see your point regarding aesthetics and I think you are right but in my mind too many people jump into an advanced sculpting type program that is designed for a bodybuilder who has many years of training under his belt, superior genetics and pharmaceuticals helping him.

Stick with basics and work em hard works for most. Exercises like the clean and press, squat/front squat, deadlift, pull-up/row, etc work a lot of muscles at once and lead to improved body composition, strength and build appreciable muscle. Your arms will certainly become bigger and/or more muscular if you add 100 pounds to your training weight in the press, row or deadlift.

My point was that I used to see guys (As my other hero Brooks Kubik would say) doing the little pink Dumbbells for tricep kickbacks and concentration curls yet they struggled with the big basic strength moves. They'd bench for the all important "pump" all the time. It's much easier in my mind to do those movements "for your arms" than to do a heavy 5x5 in the deadlift and strap fifty or more pounds on your waist and crank out some pullups.

So many of the strength magazines have derailed sensible training publishing some champion's routine. I fell into that too. I would start a sensible program and switch it up because some champ says "this is what I do" and I'd end up overtraining and injured.

What I appreciate about Strongfirst methodology and my other favorite, Dinosaur Training (Brooks Kubik) is the focus on doing the basics well and "owning" them. I don't remember who said it but the elite are separated from the rest of us because they do the basics better.....or words to that effect (haven't had my coffee yet)
 
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