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10reps a day/70 a week.
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lais817
Level 7 Valued Member
Don't forget where you started, you could do 3 on the 2nd of May. Pretty significant statistical improvement, even if it doesn't feel like it.
Deleted 20758
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You are right.
Thanks.
bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
Maybe it’s already been mentioned in the thread, but one thing I find that helps with greasing the groove is varying the volume day to day. So something you could experiment with is doing 10 reps one day, 6 the next day, 8 another day, 4, 12, etc….
When I GtG I go by how hard my first set of the day feels. If a set that otherwise feels smooth feels rough, I do less sets that day. If it’s easier than usual, I might try more sets. If the sets start feeling like a struggle, I’m done for the day.
I find that getting a feel for this kind of auto regulation has led to some surprising gains.
Boris Bachmann
Level 8 Valued Member
Yeah, crap, take a day off once in a while. I don't know the specifics of your approach, but it might not be a bad idea to just go for 50 a week spread out over for example M, T, TH, F. Like blue jeff said, varying the volume is good.
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Todays max was 6.
I now gonna start chin training only 3 days a week. Either as a normal part of my training something like Steve recommend:
Heavy(maybe set of 3-4) - light(Maybe singles) - medium(2-3rep)
or
FPP as Dan John recommend ony 3 days a week
Red Army Pullup protocoll.
My shoulder isnt happy with chins every day as i feel a little discomfort here.
I now gonna start chin training only 3 days a week. Either as a normal part of my training something like Steve recommend:
Heavy(maybe set of 3-4) - light(Maybe singles) - medium(2-3rep)
or
FPP as Dan John recommend ony 3 days a week
Red Army Pullup protocoll.
My shoulder isnt happy with chins every day as i feel a little discomfort here.
Boris Bachmann
Level 8 Valued Member
You went from 3 to 6 - awesome!
Heck, even twice a week might not be bad moving forward. DJ mentions that "old man pull-up syndrome" or something like that and you absolutely don't want to develop wrist/elbow/shoulder problems because you got overly ambitious trying to build/rebuild your pull-ups.
Heck, even twice a week might not be bad moving forward. DJ mentions that "old man pull-up syndrome" or something like that and you absolutely don't want to develop wrist/elbow/shoulder problems because you got overly ambitious trying to build/rebuild your pull-ups.
Deleted 20758
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You are right.
So maybe twice a week og just like Steve recommend so its not heavy every time.
Deleted 20758
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I have just found this in a old thread on DD and i think i will try this:
Dan John: After a certain age, when you do pull-ups, you hurt your elbows. In fact, right before the RKC 2, I was getting ready for the pull-up test and had pushed the envelope too much. Now, what I have middle-aged guys follow the rule of ten on pull-ups: they can never do more than ten pull-ups in a workout. That can be ten singles, two sets of five, five sets of two, three sets of three, or any combination. What we're finding is that at the end of two or three weeks, they are flying off the ground. Welcome to Easy Strength.
Dan John: After a certain age, when you do pull-ups, you hurt your elbows. In fact, right before the RKC 2, I was getting ready for the pull-up test and had pushed the envelope too much. Now, what I have middle-aged guys follow the rule of ten on pull-ups: they can never do more than ten pull-ups in a workout. That can be ten singles, two sets of five, five sets of two, three sets of three, or any combination. What we're finding is that at the end of two or three weeks, they are flying off the ground. Welcome to Easy Strength.
Boris Bachmann
Level 8 Valued Member
Right now I don't have pull-up goals at all (other than to keep them in the rotation somewhere) so I don't plan out when I do them. Thumbing through the past 5 or so months of my training log, I generally do them once or twice a week, occasionally 3x and there are weeks here and there where I do none. I don't follow that rule of 10 that you mention from DJ, the volume of given session is probably a third of what I did when I was young (and lighter).
Abishai
Level 5 Valued Member
very interesting....
Abishai
Level 5 Valued Member
yup..tendonitis is real rough...
BTDT
And mind you im young...
you got to give the connective tissue and joints time to adapt
bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
I’m not sure what bracket specifically constitutes middle-age, but I am about the turn 39, and recognize that my recovery is definitely not what it used to be. With all due respect to Dan John and everything he’s contributed to fitness, I dislike hearing statements like this. It is a blanket statement and is kind of a “nocebo” statement, and such statements can lead to “laypersons” thinking in absolutes, just like how some people might avoid any spinal flexion because of “stability” or whatever. There’s a lot of nuance in human movement, and just as much from person to person.
I would rather say that one should very slowly add volume to pull-ups (like one rep per week even) and see how the body reacts, than say “you’re old now so you can’t do ‘x.’”
There’s also the component of joint mobility. As we age, our movement patterns become more ingrained and can turn into imbalances, immobilities and compensations. I have found that working with a good PT that can address these has helped rid me of chronic elbow pains.
I’m not “old,” I’m willing to admit. Just want to put out my two cents not to take blanket statements to heart too quickly.
Allll that being said, you can make great gains on ten reps per day. I do it with some stuff and enjoy it. But if you want to go beyond ten reps, I would just do it slowly and cautiously and not expect your elbows to explode just because an expert told you they would.
lais817
Level 7 Valued Member
I find that my when my elbows get sore, there is a trigger point/knot in my tricep just above the elbow
The long head of the triceps from what I understand is involved when forcing the elbows behind the body (as in the top of a tactical pullup rep), so try some muscle release/massage and stretching and see if it helps.
My 2c
The long head of the triceps from what I understand is involved when forcing the elbows behind the body (as in the top of a tactical pullup rep), so try some muscle release/massage and stretching and see if it helps.
My 2c
Deleted 20758
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Its my shoulder that is a little irritated.
Boris Bachmann
Level 8 Valued Member
I don't think it's unreasonable to say that it takes people who are older longer to bounce back from dings and should be even more wary about crappy, unthoughtful programming. As I read this (and as I've heard him say more than once) he's not saying don't do pull-ups, he's just stating (what I think is) the obvious - too much, too soon and you're going to have problems (exactly what you've written)
lais817
Level 7 Valued Member
Ah, sorry, I missed that in all the comments about old men and pullups!
bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
100% agree. That's just not what was written.
What I was getting at was this:
As a coach or personal trainer, it is one thing to prescribe limited reps to athletes or clients whose personal circumstances you are aware of. Writing stuff on the internet or in social media is another story. Many people are looking for someone to tell them what to do, and they will take it to heart when a known professional says, "don' t do this, or else." In the quote he is literally saying "you hurt your elbows once you're a certain age." I'm sure that's not what he meant, however, I think that a lot of people will read that and think, "pullups will hurt me once I'm a certain age." Then the nocebo effect might rear its ugly head. Who know..... I guess I just think that when professionals put material out there, they should be aware of how people might interpret their words. Imo it should be more about the effect than the intent. Effective communication, that's all.
Also, since @TedDK said his shoulder was bothering him, I, of course, would not say, "do more pullups." In his case, ten reps is probably a good range. I love doing low reps more frequently, and generally like a lot of what Dan John has to say. I'm not here to criticize him. I just think that absolute statements can lead to misunderstanding when most situations have some degree of nuance, and the fitness world has a lot of absolute statements flying around.
bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
More pertinent to the thread.... I am not aware of the OP's background, but I do have two cents here that tie to increasing pullups.
Going from 3 to 6 is awesome! A 3-6 RM is still relatively pretty heavy. Row variations are much easier and still work the upper back and lats, and can generate more blood flow from the increase in available rep range. I think they are undervalued when people are wanting to improve pullups in some way. We all ( I think?) know that when you can't slowly increase the weight of an exercise (bodyweight or KB, for instance) that increasing volume is how you progress. Working at a 3-6 RM level is tough to increase volume without the aforementioned potential for injury. A more moderate load with better potential for better movement quality (because of the lower load) and increased volume might be a good supplement.
Here's a thought: Alternating days of horizontal rows (if there's a way to do them) and pullups would be an option. Go three days a week, so that one week has two days of pullups and one day of rows, and the next week has two days of rows and one day of pullups. You could even split the twice a week exercise into a lighter and heavier day if neeed. That way there can be waving of the load, in both rep range and intensity.
If not, that's fine. There are ways to make a lower RM work.
$0.02
the hansenator
Level 6 Valued Member
@TimothyGander mentioned this already but I’ve been giving the Red Army Pull-up Protocol a try. At the beginning of May, after not doing chins all winter, I could do one solid rep. At the end of May I could do 4 so I’m happy with that. So I’m continuing on with 7 sets of 2 and will retest again at the end of June.
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