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How many diamond pushups before one arm pushup progressions?

guardian7

Level 6 Valued Member
How many diamond (close grip) pushups should one be able to do before starting one arm pushup progressions?
Here is my reasoning.

1. The one arm pushup requires a certain level of mastery of tension that does not necessarily translate X number of pushups to X number of one arm pushups. However, having a solid base of joint strength and volume will help. The question is how much.

2. The naked warrior does not start with regular pushups for reason 1 above but Pavel's earlier books seem to assume a certain level of ability before KB got such a mass market following.

3. The diamond or close grip position is a better indicator of readiness for one arm pushups than a regular pushup even at high volume due to the instability and tension required and hand position needed. Having stronger triceps and core strength from strict pushups will also help.

4. I am speculating that building a base of diamond pushups would be more effective than highly elevated one arm pushup progressions.

I am familiar with the one arm pushup progressions from the Strongfirst bodyweight course but not there yet. I want to build a stronger base and tendon strength at my age of 54.

What would be your approach to building a base for the one arm pushup? For sedentary individuals with limited training time and especially those middle aged who have achieved it, what was your progression?
 
guardian7 said:
How many diamond (close grip) pushups should one be able to do before starting one arm pushup progressions?
Here is my reasoning.

1. The one arm pushup requires a certain level of mastery of tension that does not necessarily translate X number of pushups to X number of one arm pushups. However, having a solid base of joint strength and volume will help. The question is how much.

2. The naked warrior does not start with regular pushups for reason 1 above but Pavel's earlier books seem to assume a certain level of ability before KB got such a mass market following.

3. The diamond or close grip position is a better indicator of readiness for one arm pushups than a regular pushup even at high volume due to the instability and tension required and hand position needed. Having stronger triceps and core strength from strict pushups will also help.

4. I am speculating that building a base of diamond pushups would be more effective than highly elevated one arm pushup progressions.

I am familiar with the one arm pushup progressions from the Strongfirst bodyweight course but not there yet. I want to build a stronger base and tendon strength at my age of 54.

What would be your approach to building a base for the one arm pushup? For sedentary individuals with limited training time and especially those middle aged who have achieved it, what was your progression?
Click to expand...
Hi guardian,

Disclaimer upfront: I am weak at pushups and one arm pushups, and pressing in general. However, I have started working on one arm pushups at high elevations instead of with classic pushups, foregoing the general advice.

I get the idea of prerequisites, especially when people jump right to the shiniest exercise and sacrifice proper form and even risking severe injuries (happens a lot with back levers). But I also think that if you have a training background and have built your muscles and tendons with kettlebells, then prerequisites are less important. What's more, I have often found the supposedly more complex movements to be easier. For example, I struggled with 2H-Swings for months, but then just tried 1H-Swings which were much easier for me (I was encouraged by a comment from Mark Reifkind that tall people sometimes find 1H-Swings easier). Just following the classic progression and trying to meet prerequisites didn't do it for me.

Personally, I prefer the specificity of elevated OAP. Even at high elevations it teaches me a lot about tension. The important thing to me is to find the right height (about 5-10RM).

My idea for you would be to to GTG with diamond pushups and elevated OAP until those feel safe to do, maybe 2 days of the former and 1 day of the latter to begin with.
 
Bauer said:
Hi guardian,

Disclaimer upfront: I am weak at pushups and one arm pushups, and pressing in general. However, I have started working on one arm pushups at high elevations instead of with classic pushups, foregoing the general advice.

I get the idea of prerequisites, especially when people jump right to the shiniest exercise and sacrifice proper form and even risking severe injuries (happens a lot with back levers). But I also think that if you have a training background and have built your muscles and tendons with kettlebells, then prerequisites are less important. What's more, I have often found the supposedly more complex movements to be easier. For example, I struggled with 2H-Swings for months, but then just tried 1H-Swings which were much easier for me (I was encouraged by a comment from Mark Reifkind that tall people sometimes find 1H-Swings easier). Just following the classic progression and trying to meet prerequisites didn't do it for me.

Personally, I prefer the specificity of elevated OAP. Even at high elevations it teaches me a lot about tension. The important thing to me is to find the right height (about 5-10RM).

My idea for you would be to to GTG with diamond pushups and elevated OAP until those feel safe to do, maybe 2 days of the former and 1 day of the latter to begin with.
Click to expand...

GTG with diamond pushups sounds good and more in the spirit of the Naked Warrior as it is sufficiently challenging for lowish reps but frequent practice. It is actually not that easy to find good elevated surfaces though. I have access to a gym but I don't want to take up the smith machine/squat rack for my pushup practice. Putting your hand on a table or counter is not the right angle as well. Benches are still quite low for me. I might do repeat singles on the rack as it becomes available during my normal workout.
 
guardian7 said:
I basically want to work up to the type of progressions in that article but I found one arm one leg pushup or one arm holds that look like a good addition from that link.
Click to expand...
I was actually going to suggest working up to a one arm one leg plank. Not for a one arm one leg push-up, but because it will probably teach you the tension you need for a “regular” one arm push-up. I would also suggest one arm scapular shrugs as a supplement, or done for low volume as a warm up.
 
guardian7 said:
I basically want to work up to the type of progressions in that article but I found one arm one leg pushup or one arm holds that look like a good addition from that link.
Click to expand...
This article is also very interesting. He uses a board for more specificity. I am planning on using that too.

www.strongfirst.com

My Successful Training Plan for the SFB | StrongFirst

Overcoming the SFB challenges with diligent effort and great programming.
www.strongfirst.com
 
guardian7 said:
How many diamond (close grip) pushups should one be able to do before starting one arm pushup progressions?
Here is my reasoning.

1. The one arm pushup requires a certain level of mastery of tension that does not necessarily translate X number of pushups to X number of one arm pushups. However, having a solid base of joint strength and volume will help. The question is how much.

2. The naked warrior does not start with regular pushups for reason 1 above but Pavel's earlier books seem to assume a certain level of ability before KB got such a mass market following.

3. The diamond or close grip position is a better indicator of readiness for one arm pushups than a regular pushup even at high volume due to the instability and tension required and hand position needed. Having stronger triceps and core strength from strict pushups will also help.

4. I am speculating that building a base of diamond pushups would be more effective than highly elevated one arm pushup progressions.

I am familiar with the one arm pushup progressions from the Strongfirst bodyweight course but not there yet. I want to build a stronger base and tendon strength at my age of 54.

What would be your approach to building a base for the one arm pushup? For sedentary individuals with limited training time and especially those middle aged who have achieved it, what was your progression?
Click to expand...
For myself, I used a bit of Aleks Salkin's MAD (Mechanical Advantage Dropsets) to get the strength for my one arm push up, along with specificity drills of elevated OAPU.

One problem many people had during my SFB was the skill - the skill of keeping hips and shoulders level, which is learned by elevated OAPU.

MADs: Acher press ups -> normal press ups -> hands elevated press ups.

Doing 8 of each with minimum to no rest gave me plenty of strength. Once stronger, I changed it to Archer->feet elevated->normal press ups.

Caveat: I only had t do OAPU, not one arm one leg push up, but the principle should hold, just change the skill to be elevated one arm one leg pushups
 
Well, I will throw in my humble experience. Don’t chase number of reps but chase form and technique. I find counting reps to be counter productive while I am progressing in some bodyweight movement.

Now my progressions comes naturally. Really without planning too much, I intuitively start throwing in a “level up” progression here and there and without knowing I progress… It might not work for everyone but it works for me.
 
I'll be the odd bird and think outside the box.

I've personally seen many powerlifters be able to do good one arm push-ups on their first try, and even the big and fat ones. And their bench numbers aren't that great, I think 300-400lbs in general. I suppose something else must come into play. Pavel was always big into powerlifting, and I suppose this could be one example why.
 
guardian7 said:
1. The one arm pushup requires a certain level of mastery of tension that does not necessarily translate X number of pushups to X number of one arm pushups. However, having a solid base of joint strength and volume will help. The question is how much.
Click to expand...

Pseudo-planche push-ups seem to translate to one-arm push-ups. Plenty of people on r/bodyweightfitness have unlocked one-arm push-ups without ever training them just by advancing in the pseudo-planche push-up.

I prefer diamond push-ups because I think they build my arms better, but if I was serious about getting a one-arm push-up I'd throw myself into pseudo-planche push-ups.
 
Antti said:
I'll be the odd bird and think outside the box.

I've personally seen many powerlifters be able to do good one arm push-ups on their first try, and even the big and fat ones. And their bench numbers aren't that great, I think 300-400lbs in general. I suppose something else must come into play. Pavel was always big into powerlifting, and I suppose this could be one example why.
Click to expand...
Maybe not just their strength but because they understand the importance of tension and getting the whole body braced and tight feedforward tension before initiating the lift.
 
Inky said:
For myself, I used a bit of Aleks Salkin's MAD (Mechanical Advantage Dropsets) to get the strength for my one arm push up, along with specificity drills of elevated OAPU.

One problem many people had during my SFB was the skill - the skill of keeping hips and shoulders level, which is learned by elevated OAPU.

MADs: Acher press ups -> normal press ups -> hands elevated press ups.

Doing 8 of each with minimum to no rest gave me plenty of strength. Once stronger, I changed it to Archer->feet elevated->normal press ups.

Caveat: I only had t do OAPU, not one arm one leg push up, but the principle should hold, just change the skill to be elevated one arm one leg pushups
Click to expand...

I intend to do OAPU progressions after building a better base. MAD is a good approach. I also buy programs from Aleks and he always includes specialized variety like narrow, wide, normal pushups in a pushup program.

I could do diamond then normal. Then archer, diamond, normal or something.

Why did you choose hands elevated regular pushups rather than OAPU elevated? You wanted volume rather than skill at that point? OR dialing in the plank position and tension and level posture.

You are right about the importance of the level stance. I see some weird contortions called OAPUs on youtube.
 
3letterslong said:
My next best tool for elevated push-ups is a suspension trainer that's able to be attached to a variety of objects. You could use it almost anywhere.
Click to expand...

Do you mean a TRX? What about rings? I would imagine that to be incredibly challenging even elevated.
 
guardian7 said:
Why did you choose hands elevated regular pushups rather than OAPU elevated? You wanted volume rather than skill at that point? OR dialing in the plank position and tension and level posture.

You are right about the importance of the level stance. I see some weird contortions called OAPUs on youtube.
Click to expand...
I chose the elevated normal pushups as it was the last 'group of 8 in the MAD trio totaling 24 pushups in that set, I usually did 2 or 3 sets of these, so, it was definitely volume I was going for in the 'easiest' final group of the pushup trio. That was the strength phase. The archer translates quite nicely to the OAPU, I find, since I can use the supporting arm less and less as I get stronger and thus more akin to the OAPU.....
 
Inky said:
I chose the elevated normal pushups as it was the last 'group of 8 in the MAD trio totaling 24 pushups in that set, I usually did 2 or 3 sets of these, so, it was definitely volume I was going for in the 'easiest' final group of the pushup trio. That was the strength phase. The archer translates quite nicely to the OAPU, I find, since I can use the supporting arm less and less as I get stronger and thus more akin to the OAPU.....
Click to expand...
Happy to hear this perspective, for me archer is much easier progression and hence I choose it over elevation. (From countertop to lower elevation that I can find at home is a steep step for me).

PS: I throw in one arm planks to work on stabilization more which I believe is kind of missing link w archer…
 
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