How many diamond pushups before one arm pushup progressions?

[3letterslong]

Do you mean a TRX? What about rings? I would imagine that to be incredibly challenging even elevated.

Rings would work, but the right suspension trainer will come with a variety of attachments that will let you hang it anywhere (including from a door). I've bought suspension trainers for around $70 that come with some fantastic options for mounting.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

So let's go through the inventory of recommendations

One arm planks
Archer pushups
One arm pushups on an elevation
Supported one arm pushups

I'd work on 1-2 of these that allow you 3-5 reps per set...

These have a more massive carry over vs worrying about the carryover of close grip pushups..

My humble 2 cents

 

[guardian7]

So let's go through the inventory of recommendations

One arm planks
Archer pushups
One arm pushups on an elevation
Supported one arm pushups

I'd work on 1-2 of these that allow you 3-5 reps per set...

These have a more massive carry over vs worrying about the carryover of close grip pushups..

My humble 2 cents

Thanks, I am sold on the one arm plank and GTG or mechanical drop sets of 2-3 of close grip, tricep, archer, regular pushups. I really do need more of a base. I am willing to be patient with the OAPU goal.

 

[Ege]

Thanks, I am sold on the one arm plank and GTG or mechanical drop sets of 2-3 of close grip, tricep, archer, regular pushups. I really do need more of a base. I am willing to be patient with the OAPU goal.

For some reason, bodyweight moves create a probably wrong perception of safety for me, I potentially push my self too hard (cost me a meniscus before getting introduced to SF principals and stop signs) it is wise to follow SF stop signs IMHO.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

For some reason, bodyweight moves create a probably wrong perception of safety for me, I potentially push my self too hard (cost me a meniscus before getting introduced to SF principals and stop signs) it is wise to follow SF stop signs IMHO.

Remember just because we aren't loading the movement externally, it doesn't mean it can't be as demanding neurally especially if you're constantly attempting something at your (or beyond) 1 rep max

 

[Ege]

Remember just because we aren't loading the movement externally, it doesn't mean it can't be as demanding neurally especially if you're constantly attempting something at your (or beyond) 1 rep max

I agree, before SF, I was trying to get as close as possible to failure as quick as possible in every workout, not a good idea ..

 

[Period]

How much carry-over the diamond push-up has to the one arm push-up depends on the variation of the OAPU you are aiming for. In Convict Conditioning, they are a progression, however, their demonstrated version of the OAPU is highly unusual and could be thought of as a one-arm diamond push-up. In most cases, people will get a wider "Rocky" type of OAPU first, which has very little in common with a diamond push-up and much more with an archer push-up. Again, there are different types of archer push-ups, just like there are different variations of the one-arm push-up; apart from how far the elbow is flared out and whether the hand is placed under the chest or further out to the front, one main difference is whether one looks towards the pushing hand or away from it. Another possible variation would be gripping the wrist of the pushing arm with your other hand to assist; this may be seen as a progression from the diamond push-up, however it allows for bigger freedom in hand placement. And of course, there is partials, incline OAPU etc.
But back to the original question: rep ranges with progressions can be somewhat subjective, and also depend on the progression used. That is to say: someone who responds well to higher reps will find it beneficial to work more in that range (say, 20-40), while someone doing better with higher tension may get enough stimulus from 5-10. Also, the bigger the jumps in difficulty in the progression, the more work (in terms of intensity and volume) will be required for each progression.
So in short, it depends. I would suggest deciding on what variation of the OAPU to work on first, and to look at what rep ranges have tended to work for you in progressions in the past. Then tweak and adjust from there.

 

[Steve Freides]

Great thread, folks - nice to have the article links, too.

-S-

 

[guardian7]

How much carry-over the diamond push-up has to the one arm push-up depends on the variation of the OAPU you are aiming for. In Convict Conditioning, they are a progression, however, their demonstrated version of the OAPU is highly unusual and could be thought of as a one-arm diamond push-up. In most cases, people will get a wider "Rocky" type of OAPU first, which has very little in common with a diamond push-up and much more with an archer push-up. Again, there are different types of archer push-ups, just like there are different variations of the one-arm push-up; apart from how far the elbow is flared out and whether the hand is placed under the chest or further out to the front, one main difference is whether one looks towards the pushing hand or away from it. Another possible variation would be gripping the wrist of the pushing arm with your other hand to assist; this may be seen as a progression from the diamond push-up, however it allows for bigger freedom in hand placement. And of course, there is partials, incline OAPU etc.
But back to the original question: rep ranges with progressions can be somewhat subjective, and also depend on the progression used. That is to say: someone who responds well to higher reps will find it beneficial to work more in that range (say, 20-40), while someone doing better with higher tension may get enough stimulus from 5-10. Also, the bigger the jumps in difficulty in the progression, the more work (in terms of intensity and volume) will be required for each progression.
So in short, it depends. I would suggest deciding on what variation of the OAPU to work on first, and to look at what rep ranges have tended to work for you in progressions in the past. Then tweak and adjust from there.

Thanks for the feedback.

1. I intend to follow the SF bodyweight certification standard as the goal. I took the SF bodyweight course, so I got instruction in pistol and OAPU and tactical pullup ( I worked on tac pullup last year.) A 6-Week Program to Master the OA/OAOL Push-up | StrongFirst

The student will assume the one-arm plank and lower his or her torso under control on one arm until the tip of the elbow of the working arm is above the top of the shoulder, then he or she will press back up.

1. The feet must not be wider than two shoulder widths’ apart.
2. The side of the feet may not touch the deck at any time.
3. The body must be motionless for one second before and after the push-up to demonstrate control.
4. The shoulders must stay parallel or almost parallel to the deck for the duration of the movement.
5. There must be a distinct pause at the bottom of the push-up.
6. The hips and the shoulders must descend and ascend at the same rate.

video demonstration

2. Influenced by Aleks Salkin, Pavel M. and my own experience, and the Plan Strong program (waving workouts), I think there is a place for a variety of rep ranges and volume. This is for overall joint health and mobility and not just strength.

3. I have experienced the value of stepping back and builder a wider base and working on accessory movements (thoratic, scapular, and knee) with pullups (inverted rows) and squats (goblet squat volume and hindu squats) before going back to harder versions, tactical pullup and Double KB front squat. I am less interested in short-term PRs than building a strong long-term base and working on gaps. However, I find difficult goals (for me) as a useful way to be motivated and organize progressions even if I don't attain them. Karen Smith and/or Pavel T. have mentioned that the OAPU is the best way to really understand tension and has great carryover. Many would benefit from this focus before lifting heavy weight.

However, to answer your question about rep ranges, I seem to do best with medium heavy (difficult for bodyweight), medium volume. I like loaded endurance like rucking and loaded carries, double KB, deadlifting but am intermediate at best. Close grip pushups seemed to me to put me within this range. I am 54 and have a very sedentary academic job. My goal would be to get one strict OAPU. by the end of this year.

One arm plank to start the new year here in Asia.

 

[MikeL]

I used a yoga block to build up to OAPU. I will say I was fairly push up proficient after plenty of military circuits over the years though!

 

[Philippe Geoffrion]

I’m surprised no one ever mentions band assisted OAP. I used these a lot and they are the primo in specificity. I guess a downside could be having bands and something to anchor them in but I always felt bands are a great tool for minimalist or on the road types. They definitely helped me ALOT in advanced calisthenics training.

I never liked elevated OAP because the wrist angle always felt odd on a step, plate, ledge. I opted more for ramps, driveways or other flat, angled surfaces if elevation was my only choice.

Lots of folks have remarked crawling also led to their first OAP without directly training for it.

 

[guardian7]

I’m surprised no one ever mentions band assisted OAP. I used these a lot and they are the primo in specificity. I guess a downside could be having bands and something to anchor them in but I always felt bands are a great tool for minimalist or on the road types. They definitely helped me ALOT in advanced calisthenics training.

I never liked elevated OAP because the wrist angle always felt odd on a step, plate, ledge. I opted more for ramps, driveways or other flat, angled surfaces if elevation was my only choice.

Lots of folks have remarked crawling also led to their first OAP without directly training for it.

Yes, wrist position is definitely and issue for elevated pushups.
Crawling seems to help everything.

 

[LarryB]

For me i think pressing helped me more than anything. I had tried regressions in the past but never got much from them.
I’m a PE teacher and was doing pushups with students one day when they challenged me to do a OAPU. I said I couldn’t but to my surprise I could! Huge WTHE. Had done a run on ROP with the 32k followed by a run on the Maximorum and then giant1.0. The lats are what powers this movement imho.

 

[guardian7]

For me i think pressing helped me more than anything. I had tried regressions in the past but never got much from them.
I’m a PE teacher and was doing pushups with students one day when they challenged me to do a OAPU. I said I couldn’t but to my surprise I could! Huge WTHE. Had done a run on ROP with the 32k followed by a run on the Maximorum and then giant1.0. The lats are what powers this movement imho.

Good point about lat engagement. As well as tension and lat engagement, scapular control is important. A lot of people have kind of frozen shoulders.

 

[Pantrolyx]

Using a medicine ball or a similar object for the non-working arm is a great way to gradually decrease the support, hence gradually increasing the demand for balance and stability in the working arm (and well, the core), in my experience.

 

[guardian7]

Using a medicine ball or a similar object for the non-working arm is a great way to gradually decrease the support, hence gradually increasing the demand for balance and stability in the working arm (and well, the core), in my experience.

What would you do for the step before that?

 

[Pantrolyx]

What would you do for the step before that?

You can make it considerably easier by spreading the legs widely, and furthermore deload a lot by laying your entire forearm on the medicine ball, for instance. Still, it will be a starting point to learning the demands of the one limb aspect of a pushup. I am sure that the diamond pushups is a fruitful step before that again,

 

[Torin]

If I was going to use diamond push-ups as an regression of the one-arm pushup, then I would probably focus on the one leg variation (it allows you to shift the weight to one of the arms with a stiff torso when they become too easy)

YMMV

 

[Hung]

About 10-15 I guess? I can did an all out but strict 10 reps pull up before I can cheat one arm pull up (last 3/4 ROM) but not from fully hang.

 

[Kozushi]

I eventually was able to do two reps of one hand one leg pushups.

How I did it: started with just holding myself up at the top of the one arm pushup, then gradually trying to do little mini part pushups by bending my arm slightly and then straightening it. Eventually I went all the way down. Doing the one arm one leg pushup is the same progression, but it is more about balance than anything.