all posts post new thread

Barbell Is sumo easier than conventional?

Adachi

Adachi

Level 7 Valued Member
I am a nascent novice to barbells.
I look to others for guidance on barbell training. (especially Knock Em Dead by @Fabio Zonin )
I don't currently have much more than deadlifts on the horizon. I have from time to time fretted over the differences between training Sumo vs Conventional.
I am glad to have encountered some food for thought, in a rather equanimous package.

TL;DR. Edit: for a given lifter, one stance or another might feel easier and or prove to be a stronger lift . It depends a lot on your hips, and which parts of your chain are weaker than others at certain positions.

www.strongerbyscience.com

Why Do Sumo Deadlifts Seem Easier Than Conventional Deadlifts?

Since sumo deadlifts disproportionately reward people who already have great leverages for deadlifting, it shouldn’t be too surprising that a disproportionate amount of the best deadlifters are sumo deadlifters.
www.strongerbyscience.com www.strongerbyscience.com
 
Last edited:
Great article.

But he did ignore the ridicule you'll receive on if you go with the super wide, feet almost touch the plates width stance :)
 
Its really about body shape. When I used Barbells I only lifted Sumo. For me they were safer for my back. It uses less lower back and more Quads. I would try both and see which is more comfortable.
 
Sumo always seemed like a cheat to me, using as much leverage as possible to make as much noise in the gym as possible.
 
This discussion pops up from time to time and the bottom line is this. No, sumo is not easier or less manly or cheating. Some people pull big with sumo, because their body allows it more easily than conventional. Some people are more suited to conventional and can’t do anything with sumo.

When I was competing, Louie Simmons helped me design my basic program and he insisted that I test my deadlift with a sumo stance , but. Be sure to hit a conventional stance as often as possible. So, I would switch from week to week or sometimes from set to set.

I pulled 730lbs. Sumo in 2010at a body weight of 312lbs. and pulled 700 conventional at 275lb bodyweight in 2012. When I lost weight, my conventional stance felt more comfortable and it started to feel better, but I still tested sumo.

IMO, do both and become strong , not just a good deadlifter.

Cheers!
 
solarbear said:
Sumo always seemed like a cheat to me, using as much leverage as possible to make as much noise in the gym as possible.
Click to expand...
Cheating

M.Valenti did a nice job of going into this.

The thought that it is cheating is absurd.

A Sumo is a Deadlift, as is Convetiontiona Deadlift and is...

The The Squat-Stance Deadlift

www.t-nation.com

Tip: The Squat-Stance Deadlift

Sumo? Conventional? Nah, it's somewhere in between. Here's how to do it.
www.t-nation.com www.t-nation.com

The Squat-Stance is performed by Ed Coan.

Maybe Coan's Dealift records should be deleted as well as...

Danny Grigsby 487.5 kg (1074 lbs) Raw Deadlift World Record



...since they cheated.

Making Noise Putting The Deadlift Down

Regardless of which Deadlift Style is used, returing a Heavy Deadlift to the floor is going to make some noise.

This remind me of when I was performing Conventional Deadlift in a gym. One the Gym Employs ask me to put the Deadlif down genlty and make no noise.

I was using 400 lbs for Reps. My reply was if you show me how to do that, I will replicate. That ended the discussion.

Evidently, he was incable of demonstrating to me how to gently and softly lower the bar to the floor. I doubt the had ever performed a Deadlift, let along one with any real weight.

Statements like the Sumo Deadlifting is a form of cheating remind me of Daniel Ariely's book, Predictably Irrational.

I continue to be amazed at how individual come up with process information, come to assumption and make choices.
 
Adachi said:
I am a nascent novice to barbells.
I look to others for guidance on barbell training. (especially Knock Em Dead by @Fabio Zonin )
I don't currently have much more than deadlifts on the horizon. I have from time to time fretted over the differences between training Sumo vs Conventional.
I am glad to have encountered some food for thought, in a rather equanimous package.

TL;DR. Edit: for a given lifter, one stance or another might feel easier and or prove to be a stronger lift . It depends a lot on your hips, and which parts of your chain are weaker than others at certain positions.

www.strongerbyscience.com

Why Do Sumo Deadlifts Seem Easier Than Conventional Deadlifts?

Since sumo deadlifts disproportionately reward people who already have great leverages for deadlifting, it shouldn’t be too surprising that a disproportionate amount of the best deadlifters are sumo deadlifters.
www.strongerbyscience.com www.strongerbyscience.com
Click to expand...
I like this article, it points out that how the sumo deadlift penalties the one with bad leverage and rewards ones with good leverage more than conventional. And also he points out that with normal average people, it's not that difference. The way he analyzes: first, compare the mean and then zoom out at the right of the distribution is admirable. I learn a lot from him and RTS and other strength coaches who do analysis work - it transfers well to my job (product analyst)

Thing that I concern about the articles: how does he create the model of the block pull/deficit DL? The theory is okay, but the model/distribution comes out of nowhere.

And one thing...based on the articles, there will be some different in number at the right of distribution aka where the good leverage lifters can be found. And that groups of lifter is the minor but the most vocal one on social media. Many vid about them doing sumo DL with huge amount of weight effortless; which can causes average people can have a skew view about sumo DL. It maybe easier for some but it's not that easier...
 
If you are actually competing for metal, use whatever technique within the boundaries of the rules that you can.

Anything else would seriously be stupid.

If you are training in your garage for the lulz, who cares? Do whatever you want.

If you think sumo is less manly, you might have some problems with your view of what makes a man, and some serious contemplating to do.
 
Sumo essentially turns it into a rack pull imo, but then again some of the competition arches in benching turn the lift into a partial, so whatever whatever. lulz
 
Joel the Savage said:
How much more do you lift with that stance?
Click to expand...
With a stance as described in my original comment - feet so wide they touch the plates? I have no idea. I don’t do that.

As for sumo in general, I’m one of those that sees no difference between conventional and sumo (some days sumo is heavier; some days it is lighter). So I stick with conventional because I like it better. The only reason I pull sumo now is to 1) maintain the pattern and 2) it gives my lower back a break.
 
justinr said:
With a stance as described in my original comment - feet so wide they touch the plates? I have no idea. I don’t do that.

As for sumo in general, I’m one of those that sees no difference between conventional and sumo (some days sumo is heavier; some days it is lighter). So I stick with conventional because I like it better. The only reason I pull sumo now is to 1) maintain the pattern and 2) it gives my lower back a break.
Click to expand...
Exactly my point, lift in the way that gives you the best results.
I lift conventional because thats the rules IF i should compete in strongman.

Look up Eddie Berglund. His numbers are insane (710kg total in -66kg) , and that is with every technique-enhancement allowed.
BUT his "internet approved" lifts are not far behind.
 
metaldrummer said:
Sumo essentially turns it into a rack pull imo,
Click to expand...
Predictably Irrational

This takes us back to Daniel Ariely's (Psychology and Behavioral Economics at Duke University) research in his book, Predictably Irrational.

"1-Sentence-Summary: Predictably Irrational explains the hidden forces that really drive how we make decisions, which are far less rational than we think, ..."
IMO

This is a good example of an individuals who base their "Opinion" on emotions rather than fasts.

Let me restate what Dr Craig Marker stated in one his article on opinions.

"Your feeling and opinons don't matter but the Facts Do."

A Sumo Deadlift Equals A Rack Deadlift

A Sumo isn't a Rack Pull. It is nowhere near it.

The difference between where the bar hits the shins with a Conventional Vs Sumo Deadlift is miniscual.

Egregious Statements
Rather than presenting egregious statements based on irrational thoughts/feelings, it is more effective to present research data that substantiates it.
 
The conversation about sumo and conventional deadlifting earlier in this thread is nothing new in the world of strength training and powerlifting. I've just deleted a few messages, and also noticed how we went off the rails which I won't bother to recap.

I had a few long conversations online when I decided to do a 3-lift meet last year but go easy on my SQ and BP in order to put all my effort into my DL. The conclusion I came to, which is the conclusion most people came to also, was "if it's within the rules, it's OK because we call play and compete by the same rules."

If you want to make sumo illegal in powerlifting, or squat stance deadlifts, or whatever else, no one is stopping you from creating your own federation. Until then, and frankly even after that happens, here we support everyone who wants to get stronger and we don't suggest people are of poor character, poor intelligence, or anything like that just because they think differently than we do.

-S-
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom