Great work, @Ellen! Thanks for sharing your progress. Those are great insights.
Your season of kayaking, SUP and backpacking sounds awesome.
Kettlebell Kettlebell AXE - general discussion
- Thread starter Xene
- Start date
Great work, @Ellen! Thanks for sharing your progress. Those are great insights.
Your season of kayaking, SUP and backpacking sounds awesome.
Again, it's not really AXE, but it's an S&S regression that's easiest to explain to people as I've explained it above. Arguably an oversimplification on my part.
-S-
james_1127
Level 6 Valued Member
Does anyone know if an audiobook of Axe is or will be released?
Adachi
Level 7 Valued Member
I think i asked this question - and the answer was something like ... "there are no plans to record and audio book at this time"
Well that is disappointing. I really like the S&S and Q&D audiobooks. I typically buy all three to have.
randyh
Level 4 Valued Member
One of my newer client athletes is a 48 year old female marathoner who started training with me about 9 months ago. She has been on a two days a week strength program + 2 days a week of AxE or AGT work for about 5 months now, (She had never lifted before starting with me so it took a little bit to get her “pre-strong first.”)
Anyway, this last Sunday in London she knocked 17 minutes off her last marathon outing which was in October. The October marathon was also a PR effort (5 minutes) after only about 8 weeks of basic “learning how” lifting.
Not super scientific here, but the only thing about her training that changed was adding strength work. The addition of the AxE and AGT work after foundation work seems to have added a little extra ooomph. At any rate: She is stoked. Her husband trains with me also, unfortunately he got attacked and injured by a dog while on a run a few of weeks out from his first Boston marathon (a week ago yesterday) but he ran it and got through it. Then just for giggles he ran London this past Sunday and did 10 minutes better than his Boston outing. He’s stoked too.
Anyway, this last Sunday in London she knocked 17 minutes off her last marathon outing which was in October. The October marathon was also a PR effort (5 minutes) after only about 8 weeks of basic “learning how” lifting.
Not super scientific here, but the only thing about her training that changed was adding strength work. The addition of the AxE and AGT work after foundation work seems to have added a little extra ooomph. At any rate: She is stoked. Her husband trains with me also, unfortunately he got attacked and injured by a dog while on a run a few of weeks out from his first Boston marathon (a week ago yesterday) but he ran it and got through it. Then just for giggles he ran London this past Sunday and did 10 minutes better than his Boston outing. He’s stoked too.
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
So… she ran no more, or no less than she was prior to the new strength work?
randyh
Level 4 Valued Member
Yes, pretty much the same mileage as before…her husband also. My general point was before there was only running for training and the improvements came pretty quickly after adding lifting. We were all surprised at how much. Not really predictable.
Like I said, not making a scientific claim. But I am not about to try to falsify the hypothesis either (would you please lay off lifting for 8 months and see if your times get worse and then start up again and see if they improve again?) but maybe some integrative physiology grad student somewhere will take it on.
A friend of mine describes AGT and AxE training as analogous to “adding more batteries to a Tesla.” Given that MtX biogenesis happens pretty quickly and once integrated in the system should enhance performance, using lifting to get more of the body developed as a lactate sink than the sport practice alone can do strikes me as a reasonable explanation, all other things held relatively constant, for a performance improvement. That and just being stronger generally.
But, maybe not.
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
Please permit me one additional question. Your client never lifted prior to working with you. And she is doing AXE. Did she meet the prescribed ‘prerequisite’ of meeting the Simple swing standard?
Thanks…
I don't know Randy's other client, but he as my weightlifting coach, and me being in a break from weightlifting at present, has given me these "AXE-inspired" sessions this week and last, so she may be doing something similar. These are AXE in the general sense as we used to use "A+A" terminology, not the AXE program from the book specifically.
3letterslong
Level 6 Valued Member
3letterslong
Level 6 Valued Member
I started true AXE work this week and, dang, even though I'm watching the stop signs, my glutes are aching. I don't remember the last time I had DOMS.
Summerhouse
Level 1 Valued Member
Hi Anna. I like the way that this workout has been put together. It’s AGT but seems to have deviated away from typical AXE in that you have 3 movements that you are alternating through. a bit more like iron cardio/strength aerobics maybe? I’d be interested to hear the idea behind it a bit more and how this could be progressed into a full programme. It’s certainly efficient in that you can get all the main patterns covered in a single training session
Adachi
Level 7 Valued Member
the book does specify 60, 90, or 120s repeats. consider longer rest periods if things don't improve.
Agree, it's AGT with some AXE components. It deviates away from typical AXE in two ways, 1) that there are 3 movements alternating, and 2) some of them are a little more grindy (presses, squats) vs. explosive (swings, snatches, explosive push-ups).
As for progressing to a full program -- not to speak for Randy, but I think in both cases, for me and for his marathoner, we are in a phase where we are specifically emphasizing something else. I'm in a period of endurance cycling (bike riding) as my primary focus through September of this year, with my weightlifting on the back burner. So this "AXE-inspired programming" is a strength training/power supplement to that. Perhaps similar for the marathoner. In contrast, when I did A+A/AXE swing and snatch programs exclusively back in 2016-2017, that was programmed a lot differently with the primary focus on progressing the weight and volume of that movement while managing rest, fatigue, etc, which is essentially what the AXE program does, as outlined in the book.
serjetto
Level 5 Valued Member
In my opinion, this is closer to Iron Cardio. Understanding the principles and applying them to the moving parts of the system brings the system to a new level.
Referring to the definitions in Kettlebell AXE pg 40-42, yes, I think you are correct. AGT encompasses A+A, Q&D, and Super Slow 2.0. Within A+A we have AXE, Metal Heart, and Strength Aerobics (Iron Cardio). So whereas the training I did years ago with heavy swings or snatches in sets of 5 on the 1:30 or 1:45, was closer to AXE, or perhaps even farther to the left of it as shown on the diagram, what I'm doing in these recent sessions is closer to Strength Aerobics... though it differs from Iron Cardio specifically as I understand it, because each repeat isn't a complex or chain.
Agree, understanding the principles and applying them is part of what makes it effective. Even in this modified format, I can apply principles of technique and power, active rest, effective breathing, and paying attention to stop signs, to make the session provide the desired stimulus for adaptation -- development of Type II muscle fibers, increased work capacity, strength and power development, aerobic improvements -- all in a low-stress and enjoyable training format. I did another session yesterday, increasing the weight and reps from last week.
randyh
Level 4 Valued Member
The initial foundational lifting work included one and two hand swings after a few weeks…to a point where I felt she was swinging competently enough to go hard for 6 swings (10 seconds) “on the minute” for longer bouts. We started light and added reps per set, then started over with a little more weight and added time etc, So no, no “simple” standard, just my observation that she could do swings.
AnnaC above mentions some “AxE Inspired” circuits …which takes from AxE reasonably hard efforts moved as quickly as the exercise allows for reps on the minute….but in a circuit format. My runner just did swings a couple of days week…her top set a few weeks out from London was 10 swings, 20 rounds otm, 16kg.
(There were several protocols in Strong Endurance course book which consisted of circuits, but with longer rests. )
(Fwiw, In January I set a goal of 100 swings, 100 goblet squats and 100 pushups a day. My “AxE / AGT” experiment was perform an exercise at the top of the minute rotating through the three continuously. Day one it was 5 push ups, 5 swings, 5 goblet squats for 20 rounds, or one hour, Jan 31 I had gotten to 10 reps of each for 10 rounds in 1/2 hr. I realize not “orthodox” but generally in the ball park.)
Last edited:
randyh
Level 4 Valued Member
in the spirit of AxE my intention is all the movements should be moved as explosively as possible, or at least with the intention to do so…the rep scheme has to be based off the movement with which one has the least explosive endurance, right? 6 grindy pushups won’t work…but maybe one can do three explosive…so the squat and swings start at 3 also until the push ups improve.