Pavel
CEO
Steve, based on consulting with a number of our TOS and Sinister finishers. According to their experience, in one-arm swings the performance relative to bodyweight is similar for both genders.
Kettlebell Kettlebell AXE - general discussion
- Thread starter Xene
- Start date
Thank you, @Adachi.
Thank you, @Pavel
One more question: Double Espresso and it's second series, see pages 76 and 81. It's unclear to me what the second series is supposed to be: is it like the first series in the Double Espresso and using the same Stop Signs, or like a normal training day? If the latter, what sort of volume total for the day or volume total for the second series should one aim for? All the talk of full recovery makes me think it's not supposed to be another on-the-:30 series. If it's the former, this question is already answered but then it makes me wonder - if two series are good, are three better?
I have yet to try a Double Espresso but will do my first one soon.
-S-
Adachi
Level 7 Valued Member
so, My reading of the Double Espresso situation is that the second series is to reinforce the stimulation. Not unlike taking a second set in PttP at 90% weight.
and you would use the shorter list of stop signs for both series
it would be the former.
the volume for the day of double espresso is dictated by the stop signs.
the double espresso and less-than-complete recovery are to be used sparingly, after all.
it is the former
A full recovery is the norm for the mode of training. the double espresso and less than complete recovery is to be used sparingly; and maybe not at all in the first 12 weeks. or at least until a shock to the system is necessary to help promote progress; maybe over a plateau.
TheBorg
Level 4 Valued Member
Hey, since this is a general AXE discussion thread, I thought it might be a good place to ask where you see this protocol fitting in for the greater programming of a tactical athlete. I am currently on my first iteration of a 6-week/6-week block program with the first 6 weeks focusing on heavy iron and some circuit training, and the second block focusing on muscular endurance and running/rucking etc. My thought was to use AXE as the strength component for my second block, but I thought it would be worthwhile to ask how the actual protocol designer envisioned this being used!
Pete L
Level 6 Valued Member
From chapter "How Much";
"Selouyanov concluded that 40 minutes of AXE is best"
Reiterated by author in chapter "Formula for Success: A Straight Line, a Goal"
Denys Carthusian
Level 5 Valued Member
Just reading this I had to go lie down for 20 minutes.
Bauer
Level 8 Valued Member
Yes, and you would adjust your load in a way, that you could do repeats with same qualitiy reps for the desired duration. 20-30 minutes is an efficient time frame here and more than 40 minutes not recommended for most folks.
You might also do less or more than 10 seconds, depending on the type of exercise and the given load. (LCCJs spread the load differently, for example.)
LoneRider
Level 6 Valued Member
Nearly got to 40x sets today for six reps at 24KG (36 is what I got to, but I hit a stop-sign (yeeting the kettlebell in hand to hand swings for the third time (I give myself three 'drop kettlebell' strikes for AXE). When I do hit 40x sets my plan is to go to x4 EMOM for 28KG next.
A pattern I've been using for AXE sets is as follows:
A pattern I've been using for AXE sets is as follows:
- 10x 6 EMOM
- 15x 6 EMOM
- 20+ x6 EMOM - depending on feel.
james_1127
Level 6 Valued Member
Im on my 2nd step this cycle... 4/22 OTM w/40k, 2nd session at this step & it was awesome, had a great HR profile and was pretty smooth until repeat #20... That's when I could start to feel the end
Looking to get 2-3 more sessions in at this step before shooting for 30min
Looking to get 2-3 more sessions in at this step before shooting for 30min
Attachments
Ellen
Level 3 Valued Member
AXE PROGRAM IS TERRIFIC
Summary: few PR in 2.5 weeks of Axe
Background: could not do Simple, 16kg TGU was ok but struggled with 1-hand swing for 24kg. Usually could do 3 or 4 swings only. Workout in my basement at 6am before work. 12kg to 24kg KB + squat rack and BB.
Grip Strength: I've been handing from my pull up bar with 2 hands (10 sec to 1 min) and 1 hand (5 sec), I think it's helping my grip strength a lot, the stretch feels so good. I do it few times/day. On non-Axe day I'm doing front squat BB, ring dip, pullup and 2 days of rest per week.
Thank you to all of you, this forum is a gold mine of information.
Summary: few PR in 2.5 weeks of Axe
Background: could not do Simple, 16kg TGU was ok but struggled with 1-hand swing for 24kg. Usually could do 3 or 4 swings only. Workout in my basement at 6am before work. 12kg to 24kg KB + squat rack and BB.
- Beginning of March (before Axe): 5 x 1 Hand Swing with 24kg KB for the first time on both sides. So happy. I've been struggling with 24kg for so long.
- 3 weeks off to take care of my dad.
- Wednesday April 3rd: 1st attempt to Axe "by memory" (I read the book months ago) -> 21kg x H2H. 6 swings OTM then 8 swings because too easy. Stopped at 28 minutes, I was late to work. Surprised and so happy, it was easy.
- Reread the book and forum threads
- Few days later 2nd Axe with 24kg x 1-hand x 2 rep OTM until 25 minutes because of stop signs. So happy, that was 50 x 1 hand-swing with 24kg for the first time.
- Few days later 3rd Axe with 24kg x 1-hand x 3 rep OTM until ~34 min because I wanted to do 100 swings.
- Few days later 4th Axe with 24kg x 1-hand x 4 rep OTM until ~22 min because of stop signs
- Wedn April 17: 5th Axe with 24kg x 1 hand x 5 rep OTM until 20 minutes because ... "this is 100 swings, I'm wondering if I can do TGU now?" and I did my 10 TGU with 16 kg in 9 minutes. Kind of untimed "SIMPLE", celebration dance ;-)
- Thursday April 18, watch videos of @Anna C swinging 28kg and 32kg like if it was "nothing" (she's my new hero). It was on a interesting thread about speed of 1H swing
- Friday April 19: went to a shop to buy a 28kg KB hoping than by doing 2 hands swing with 28kg on days when my hands need a "rest" it will help my 24kg x 1H. The shop has only a 32kg on display so I tried several 2 hands swings and it felt easy. Wondered if I needed a 28kg or a 32 kg. They brought the 28kg, tried it and could even do a single hand with the 28kg on both sides (=45.8% BW) !!!! I was shocked. The sale guy was so good "because it's your first time here, you have $50 discount, and because the 32kg is a floor display, I'll give it to you at 50% if you buy both" ... I tried them again and bought them. So it's like if I paid $2 less for the 32kg full price and I got the 28kg free ;-)
- Friday April 19: I had to play with my new toys when I came home ;-) OTM 28kg x 10 rep with 2 hands swings x 2 minutes (easy) + OTM 32kg x 10 rep with 2 hands swings x 2 minutes then stop sign... few minutes break, then decided to do TGU. The first one felt heavy ... I screwed up and picked up the 20kg KB instead of the 16KB. It was my first time doing a TGU with a 20kg !!! I did 3 on each side then stop sign. I was so happy. (I'm sore today as expected, rest day ;-) )
Grip Strength: I've been handing from my pull up bar with 2 hands (10 sec to 1 min) and 1 hand (5 sec), I think it's helping my grip strength a lot, the stretch feels so good. I do it few times/day. On non-Axe day I'm doing front squat BB, ring dip, pullup and 2 days of rest per week.
Thank you to all of you, this forum is a gold mine of information.
Ellen
Level 3 Valued Member
Interesting, when I read Axe first they say we needed to do Simple before doing it, it's why I put the book aside. Do you start them with "light" AXE then S&S then heavier AXE?
I think one of the positive sides of AXE for me was switching the mental block from "24kg is freaking heavy" to "yes, I can do it" (even with only 2 reps per round). My main "issue" is 30/40 minutes is long ... I have to start to work later ;-)
Yes. I find it beneficial to let them build up some volume and time with shorter sets and more of them. You could just call it an S&S regression, which is what it is.
-S-
LoneRider
Level 6 Valued Member
Interesting. When I was thinking about what I know now about strength and conditioning my own thoughts would have been this progression for strength and conditioning if I had to do it all over again..
- S&S till reaching Timeless Simple
- Either Q&D or some sort of barbell program (likely Greyskull LP or a 5/3/1 split focused on the Big 3)
- AXE
james_1127
Level 6 Valued Member
If you read the KBSF swing plan it's S&S in an AXE format so you could definitely run it that way... If you do not own that material definitely look to add it, it's great information
LoneRider
Level 6 Valued Member
That's awesome! Keep up the good work.
PRs are awesome and borderline addictive, I'll say that for sure.
Totally relate there. The water's starting to warm up and I'm likely gonna dust off my surfboard and get out on the water with it, even just to get some paddling in so I can actually surf decent during the summertime.
Ellen
Level 3 Valued Member
thank you, I just checked it and even with their current -50% I won't be able to buy it yet, I just bought a kettlebell that was not planned at all in my financial budget (but fits perfectly my health investment budget ;-) )
I might start with BB push press and strict press because I already "know" how to do it.