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Kettlebell Kettlebell Hard-The Wolf

Bkb said:
You mean doing one of the programs 6 days a week, instead of the written 3 days a week?
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I think what @BrianCF is referring to is for example:

Weekly Layout:
Monday
Oh Row You Don't - Day 1 (Complex)
Tuesday
Clean Em Up - Day 1 (Chain)
Wednesday
Oh Row You Don't - Day 2 (Complex)
Thursday
Clean Em Up - Day 2 (Chain)
Friday
Oh Row You Don't - Day 3 (Complex)
Saturday
Clean Em Up - Day 3 (Chain)
Sunday
OFF, definitely an off/rest day.

I really enjoy double kb complexes and am having some really great success with loosing body fat/building muscle with them. I'm currently going onto Week 5 of Lucky 13 and this one is no joke. I'm considering running something similar with King-Sized Killer M-W-F and You Don't Know Squat T-Th-Sa.
 
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YourArsenal23 said:
I think what @BrianCF is referring to is for example:

Weekly Layout:
Monday
Oh Row You Don't - Day 1 (Complex)
Tuesday
Clean Em Up - Day 1 (Chain)
Wednesday
Oh Row You Don't - Day 2 (Complex)
Thursday
Clean Em Up - Day 2 (Chain)
Friday
Oh Row You Don't - Day 3 (Complex)
Saturday
Clean Em Up - Day 3 (Chain)
Sunday
OFF, definitely an off/rest day.

I really enjoy double kb complexes and am having some really great success with loosing body fat/building muscle with them. I'm currently going onto Week 5 of Lucky 13 and this one is no joke. I'm considering running something similar with King-Sized Killer M-W-F and You Don't Know Squat T-Th-Sa.
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I find this interesting for two reasons. 1)Because I want to do it. 2) Because usually the SF/GN recommendation would be to follow things as written, and as such, not to do anything other than the 3 days of work…
 
Bkb said:
I find this interesting for two reasons. 1)Because I want to do it. 2) Because usually the SF/GN recommendation would be to follow things as written, and as such, not to do anything other than the 3 days of work…
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Written out sounds like a great idea. But you bring up good points. I’m no expert but maybe do lighter weight on one of the programs? I’ve never done it, but thinking about running something similar with KSK and a complex. That way one day is single kb work and the other is double.
 
Bkb said:
I find this interesting for two reasons. 1)Because I want to do it. 2) Because usually the SF/GN recommendation would be to follow things as written, and as such, not to do anything other than the 3 days of work…
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@Bkb -
The only reason I would say "give this a shot" is that @BrianCF has done this sort of thing repeatedly over the years and reported good results from doing so.

HOWEVER, he is n=1, and has very high levels of conditioning. So, if you already have relatively high levels of conditioning, then this sort of structure may work for you too.
 
MikeL said:
Do any of you do additional lifts with the Wolf (or I suppose Geoff’s other programs), before or after, eg some heavier bar work? Ie is it a component of your workout, or the whole thing?
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I have been running the red army protocol for dips & pullups concurrently (alternate days) and also did it whilst doing the wolf, as a finisher.
 
I'm aiming for the Wolf. In preparation I completed "More Core" as I felt I was weak here and I'm coming to the end of "You don't know squat 2.0". I had anticipated running it with 24's. But I want to complete it as written. Thinking a first week trial run with 16's to get the feel for it and perhaps bump up to 20's when I begin in earnest in the new year. We'll see.
 
Lotto said:
I'm aiming for the Wolf. In preparation I completed "More Core" as I felt I was weak here and I'm coming to the end of "You don't know squat 2.0". I had anticipated running it with 24's. But I want to complete it as written. Thinking a first week trial run with 16's to get the feel for it and perhaps bump up to 20's when I begin in earnest in the new year. We'll see.
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How did you like You Don't Know Squat? I'll be start that first thing in the New Year along with King-Sized Killer. I'm on Week 6 of Lucky 13, and Day 3 in my opinion is brutally close to The Wolf Day 3's.
 
@YourArsenal23 I'm enjoying You don't know squat. I came in from Tom Furman Black balls and then More Core, so my legs weren't the predominant muscles being hit. I especially like the "low" reps of YDKS. I'm feeling strong in the legs from it. I measure strength via yoga and can see an improvement in asanas that require leg strength. Hoping to add to this with the Wolf in the new year.
 
Good Stuff! The low reps seem deceiving but I'm sure with all the squats it turns brutal fast. The Wolf is great, a memorable pain for sure. You definitely feel accomplished when done after 6 weeks.
 
This has been a great thread. I learned a lot from many of your comments of your experiences with The Wolf and took a lot of your suggestions. I am 5 weeks in. I started a while ago. I wasn't sure if I was ready for a program like this and needed a few weeks where I had started over a few times to see IF I should attempt the whole thing and at what weight. In a perfect world I would have started with the 10rm bell and moved through the program without setting the kettlebells down for the whole program. While I was adherent to the rest periods I started with the 20's and did have to set the bells down on almost all my day threes. I wonder what @Geoff Neupert would say about setting the bells down especially if you are keeping your rest times at the required ratio. To my mind it just means I have room to improve on the next go round with The Wolf. I was absolutely gassed when I set the bells down and needed a bit of time to collect myself before safely moving on. I originally started with the 16's and they were easy for me that to the point where I breezed through the first week and wasn't seeing why The Wolf was so difficult. I knew it progressed from there but it still felt pretty easy . I got some suggestions to stay with the 16's but of course decided to go with the 20's. I'm glad I did because I have gotten a lot stronger and have made it through with only having to set them down on the third day. And honestly it has kept me super humble with this program. It is a beast. I actually have been having a lot of problems around when I eat and when I work out for day threes. I'm looking forward to the next time of running it with the 20's and hopefully never setting the bells down. And yes I still have one week to go.
Anyway, my cardio has been the weak point in getting through The Wolf. I was looking to possibly get into a snatch program next to address that a bit and also hit the rower harder... Looking for suggestions on a good snatch program curious what you all have gone on to after The Wolf. For context I am 43 years old with two young kids. Also welcome any thoughts on the above. Happy Holidays!
 
@DgNY if you are enjoying The Wolf and want to stay with a Geoff Neupert program for snatches there is "Sir snatch-a-lot" for double bell work and "Upper Back Attack" for single bell work. For reference I have done neither.
 
DgNY said:
This has been a great thread. I learned a lot from many of your comments of your experiences with The Wolf and took a lot of your suggestions. I am 5 weeks in. I started a while ago. I wasn't sure if I was ready for a program like this and needed a few weeks where I had started over a few times to see IF I should attempt the whole thing and at what weight. In a perfect world I would have started with the 10rm bell and moved through the program without setting the kettlebells down for the whole program. While I was adherent to the rest periods I started with the 20's and did have to set the bells down on almost all my day threes. I wonder what @Geoff Neupert would say about setting the bells down especially if you are keeping your rest times at the required ratio. To my mind it just means I have room to improve on the next go round with The Wolf. I was absolutely gassed when I set the bells down and needed a bit of time to collect myself before safely moving on. I originally started with the 16's and they were easy for me that to the point where I breezed through the first week and wasn't seeing why The Wolf was so difficult. I knew it progressed from there but it still felt pretty easy . I got some suggestions to stay with the 16's but of course decided to go with the 20's. I'm glad I did because I have gotten a lot stronger and have made it through with only having to set them down on the third day. And honestly it has kept me super humble with this program. It is a beast. I actually have been having a lot of problems around when I eat and when I work out for day threes. I'm looking forward to the next time of running it with the 20's and hopefully never setting the bells down. And yes I still have one week to go.
Anyway, my cardio has been the weak point in getting through The Wolf. I was looking to possibly get into a snatch program next to address that a bit and also hit the rower harder... Looking for suggestions on a good snatch program curious what you all have gone on to after The Wolf. For context I am 43 years old with two young kids. Also welcome any thoughts on the above. Happy Holidays!
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If you have to set the bells down, set them down. There are no medals for bad form and getting injured.

Try this on heavy day. Do the first set or 2 with 20's. When the fatigue sets in, 3rd or 4th set, drop back to 16's.

All of the programs in MKM /KH get difficult as you progress through the weeks. I would say 90% of the people should not start with The Wolf, or The Long Haul, Or the A & P or Clean'Em Up. A foundation of conditioning should be established before taking on the Himalayas of the MKM. You don't start with Mount Everest.

There are other programs that are more doable to start. Not easy, they'll test the mettle, but will teach you there is a difference between fighting through being uncomfortable vs. all out misery and HAVING to put the bells down. The Olympic, Oh Row You Don't, The Basic, Upper Back Attack would be good examples.
 
@BrianCF The above post is very good advice. It has gotten me thinking about the question you asked me (in another thread) about what I thought about Ballistic Beatdown.

What category would you put BB in? Have you run Ballistic Beatdown in the past?
 
blad51 said:
@BrianCF The above post is very good advice. It has gotten me thinking about the question you asked me (in another thread) about what I thought about Ballistic Beatdown.

What category would you put BB in? Have you run Ballistic Beatdown in the past?
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I have. It wasn't one of my favorite programs. Not that it's a bad program. I can see the benefits of grip strength. I just think there are too many reps. High pull which fatigues grip into a double snatch there's too much that can go wrong if you're not concentrating. Also, when reps are this high, I noticed, I was doing reps vs. being explosive.

It's not the hardest program, somewhere in the middle I put it at 12.

Hardest to easiest using 20's.
1. The A & P I couldn't finish this with 20's.
2. Clean 'Em Up. I did finish this program 8 years ago. Couldn't come close now. 84 reps on last heavy day, in 20 minutes, no chance.
3. The Long Haul. The last 2 weeks are awful
4. The Wolf See weeks 3 and 6
5. Oh Row You Don't 2.0. This one is a forgotten gem. Though I HATE renegade rows. 140 second sets are no joke
6. The Up and Over Day 3 is deceivingly difficult, especially in weeks 6 and 9. This will teach you to be comfortable in the rack
7. Lucky 13 Last couple of heavy days suck in a good way. Leg shakers with lunges and squats, another good prelude to the Wolf
8. Shoulder Smoker I put Lucky 13 ahead of this, because as much as I dislike feeling fatigued in the rack, Leg shaking is scarier.
9. The Basic This is a good test of your conditioning levels. Squat to Snatch to Press at end of heavy day is tough. The press will feel extra heavy
10.Clean 'Em Up 2.0 Much more doable than Clean 'Em Up because you only have to do 1 set of presses on heavy day.
11. Herky Jerky, Weeks 7-9 are heart pounding saunas especially if run as a chain
12. Ballistic Beatdown I never thought I'd look forward to front squats....
13.Jerk Werk. You have to run it as a chain and the fatigue sets in nicely
14. The Universe, heavy day is a real grip tester in weeks 5 and 6
15. The Olympic 3.0 Painful, but thankfully only 5 reps
16. You Don't Know Squat 2.0 This is a great prelude to the Wolf
17.Sir Snatch a Lot Thankfully the press on heavy day is the second exercise
18.Upper Back Attack A good first program to start out of MKM
19. Oh Row You Don't. I've done this with 55 lb bells
20. More Core This is kind of a throwaway. Like George Harrison songs on Beatle albums not named The White Album and Abbey Road
 
BrianCF said:
I have. It wasn't one of my favorite programs. Not that it's a bad program. I can see the benefits of grip strength. I just think there are too many reps. High pull which fatigues grip into a double snatch there's too much that can go wrong if you're not concentrating. Also, when reps are this high, I noticed, I was doing reps vs. being explosive.

It's not the hardest program, somewhere in the middle I put it at 12.

Hardest to easiest using 20's.
1. The A & P I couldn't finish this with 20's.
2. Clean 'Em Up. I did finish this program 8 years ago. Couldn't come close now. 84 reps on last heavy day, in 20 minutes, no chance.
3. The Long Haul. The last 2 weeks are awful
4. The Wolf See weeks 3 and 6
5. Oh Row You Don't 2.0. This one is a forgotten gem. Though I HATE renegade rows. 140 second sets are no joke
6. The Up and Over Day 3 is deceivingly difficult, especially in weeks 6 and 9. This will teach you to be comfortable in the rack
7. Lucky 13 Last couple of heavy days suck in a good way. Leg shakers with lunges and squats, another good prelude to the Wolf
8. Shoulder Smoker I put Lucky 13 ahead of this, because as much as I dislike feeling fatigued in the rack, Leg shaking is scarier.
9. The Basic This is a good test of your conditioning levels. Squat to Snatch to Press at end of heavy day is tough. The press will feel extra heavy
10.Clean 'Em Up 2.0 Much more doable than Clean 'Em Up because you only have to do 1 set of presses on heavy day.
11. Herky Jerky, Weeks 7-9 are heart pounding saunas especially if run as a chain
12. Ballistic Beatdown I never thought I'd look forward to front squats....
13.Jerk Werk. You have to run it as a chain and the fatigue sets in nicely
14. The Universe, heavy day is a real grip tester in weeks 5 and 6
15. The Olympic 3.0 Painful, but thankfully only 5 reps
16. You Don't Know Squat 2.0 This is a great prelude to the Wolf
17.Sir Snatch a Lot Thankfully the press on heavy day is the second exercise
18.Upper Back Attack A good first program to start out of MKM
19. Oh Row You Don't. I've done this with 55 lb bells
20. More Core This is kind of a throwaway. Like George Harrison songs on Beatle albums not named The White Album and Abbey Road
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Excellent post. I wonder what Geoff would have from most difficult to least difficult.
 
I ran Up and Over before The Wolf and looking back that helped put me in a good position to complete The Wolf with 20's. I finished up Lucky 13 recently, and it was tough. The Day 3's in the later weeks rival The Wolf Day 3's (in my opinion). Also not sure if it was because I ran KB strong for 8 weeks and then jumped right into complexes, but it was a tough go at this one for sure. On some weeks I had to drop to 16's for Day 3. Lucky 13 made me realize I prefer Front Squats over Lunges any day.

Next week I'm starting King-Sized Killer and You Don't Know Squat on the off days. There are many programs included in MKM/KB Hard that I have programming for a long time.
 
DgNY said:
This has been a great thread. I learned a lot from many of your comments of your experiences with The Wolf and took a lot of your suggestions. I am 5 weeks in. I started a while ago. I wasn't sure if I was ready for a program like this and needed a few weeks where I had started over a few times to see IF I should attempt the whole thing and at what weight. In a perfect world I would have started with the 10rm bell and moved through the program without setting the kettlebells down for the whole program. While I was adherent to the rest periods I started with the 20's and did have to set the bells down on almost all my day threes. I wonder what @Geoff Neupert would say about setting the bells down especially if you are keeping your rest times at the required ratio. To my mind it just means I have room to improve on the next go round with The Wolf. I was absolutely gassed when I set the bells down and needed a bit of time to collect myself before safely moving on. I originally started with the 16's and they were easy for me that to the point where I breezed through the first week and wasn't seeing why The Wolf was so difficult. I knew it progressed from there but it still felt pretty easy . I got some suggestions to stay with the 16's but of course decided to go with the 20's. I'm glad I did because I have gotten a lot stronger and have made it through with only having to set them down on the third day. And honestly it has kept me super humble with this program. It is a beast. I actually have been having a lot of problems around when I eat and when I work out for day threes. I'm looking forward to the next time of running it with the 20's and hopefully never setting the bells down. And yes I still have one week to go.
Anyway, my cardio has been the weak point in getting through The Wolf. I was looking to possibly get into a snatch program next to address that a bit and also hit the rower harder... Looking for suggestions on a good snatch program curious what you all have gone on to after The Wolf. For context I am 43 years old with two young kids. Also welcome any thoughts on the above. Happy Holidays!
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I recently did the Wolf. I could not stick to the rest period times, and 2 early sessions I had to put the bells down. I still got a lot of out of doing it, and plan on doing it again next year.

Struggling with it helped me face the fact that my conditioning needs work, and my 2023 has more conditioning in it because of that, so the negative has turned to a positive.

I don’t enjoy kb swings, but they are so good for conditioning it’s not funny. Also a hell of a lot less technique than the snatch, you could just do a swing program?

I am learning the snatch, and have realised it’s so technique heavy, it needs singular focus, same as C&J. So, I’m going to leave it til 2024, and focus on basic easy money exercises next year.
 
blad51 said:
Hahaha! KBs and The Beatles?

Thanks for your excellent answer!
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Just like no one that I remember has ever asked about "More Core," No one has ever said "Within You, Without You" is their favorite song on Sgt Pepper. Or Blue Jay Way on the Magical Mystery Tour. Or "Love You To" on Revolver, though you could make an argument for "Taxman" or "I Want To Tell You."

The Beatles and Kettlebells are a few of my favorite things...to paraphrase The Sound of Music.
 
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