Kettlebell Kettlebell Hard-The Wolf
- Thread starter coosbaylarson
- Start date
DgNY
Level 2 Valued Member
Thanks Brian. I'll try this. Yeah I spent last year working through Pavel's course for grapplers and then did a swing complex called Swing Season right before this and was looking for a front squat program. Hence jumping into the wolf. But to your point about not starting with the most difficult the wolf was the first complex program I've done.
But to be clear the issue here was bell selection and I still am not totally clear why I wouldn't do the same thing again (err on the side of heavier). Keeping the bells in hand requires cardio as well as strength. Is the thinking that if one is in between bell sizes to go smaller to protect against technique breakdown?
Because if the challenge of the program is time based (do the work in as fast a time as possible and keep rest time at a certain ratio) what's the significance of having to put the kettlebells down other than it affects your time...?
Halfakneecap
Level 6 Valued Member
I used 2x16. That’s light for me for the exercises. I think it was better than 2x20, that I originally thought about using. the Wolf is about conditioning, not strength.
KB strong is my strength program.
KB strong is my strength program.
BrianCF
Level 7 Valued Member
Err on the lighter side always. Bad form leads to injury. The program is time based meaning the split between work:rest ratio. Do the work in the best from possible.
The significance of not putting the bells down is lactic acid buildup, which is turned into lactate. When lactate is produced, extra growth hormone is also produced which burns fat.
If you're looking for a good heavy non-complex front squat time based program. Do EDT
Take a pair of heavy bells, 6-8 rep max. Set clock for 20 minutes
Do as many sets of 2-3 rep front squats alternated with 5 reps of double swings.
Rest as necessary. Do 3x a week. Next time you do the workout try and add at least one more rep in 20 minutes.
DgNY
Level 2 Valued Member
Thanks so much for explaining why not putting the bells down in a complex is so important! I can imagine why setting the bells down and picking them back up interrupts that process. And thanks for the squat suggestion.
MikeL
Level 6 Valued Member
I’ve done a few of these sessions now and the workout is pretty intense, it’s hard work and I enjoy it. The weight is a bit lighter than I’d expect.
However, twice now I’ve had a lumbar/sciatic pain come on after it, I’m now taking 2 weeks off to recover (and feel every lb of Xmas without training!). I had this before and suspect a historic hernia has flared up. However, I’ve done a significant amount of arduous activity since my original injury 15 years ago, so I’m quite disappointed to find it come back on now. I’ve been swinging a 48 and pressing 32s (one arm) quite happily for a while now, ran ROP last year with no trouble.
Maybe one for a new thread but any thoughts on cause within this program itself? The double snatches were half-snatched after the first workout.
However, twice now I’ve had a lumbar/sciatic pain come on after it, I’m now taking 2 weeks off to recover (and feel every lb of Xmas without training!). I had this before and suspect a historic hernia has flared up. However, I’ve done a significant amount of arduous activity since my original injury 15 years ago, so I’m quite disappointed to find it come back on now. I’ve been swinging a 48 and pressing 32s (one arm) quite happily for a while now, ran ROP last year with no trouble.
Maybe one for a new thread but any thoughts on cause within this program itself? The double snatches were half-snatched after the first workout.
BrianCF
Level 7 Valued Member
Fatigue and from dropping the hips back and going too far.
One time I tried to do Tabata with Goblet squats and the lumbar was barking around set 6
Recently I injured myself doing double swings. Too heavy too many reps. Pop went my SI joint. 4 sessions to the chiropractor in 2 weeks and doing hip flexor opening yoga I'm back in action
This is a 3 day a week program. Other than stretching, mobility/yoga and walking you shouldn't touch a weight or martial arts
One time I tried to do Tabata with Goblet squats and the lumbar was barking around set 6
Recently I injured myself doing double swings. Too heavy too many reps. Pop went my SI joint. 4 sessions to the chiropractor in 2 weeks and doing hip flexor opening yoga I'm back in action
This is a 3 day a week program. Other than stretching, mobility/yoga and walking you shouldn't touch a weight or martial arts
MikeL
Level 6 Valued Member
Interesting, thanks. I did a few runs which might account for additional fatigue (I often believe I have used up my life’s “running” allowance ) , but il have to watch my hips with doubles and see if I’m getting it wrong; stance is clearly wider so it’d make sense for something to change in the movement pattern and be aggravating.
BrianCF
Level 7 Valued Member
Stretch your hip flexors. Butterfly pose, Child's pose, Pigeon pose, runners lunge.
@MikeL
Dr. Stuart McGill, arguably the world's leading researcher in lower back health/performance states that lumbar issues arise from not a lack of strength in the core musculature, but a lack of strength-endurance.
So, even though you've done a lot of work, it sounds like it wasn't (a) the right work, (b) enough work, or (c) a combo of the two.
I'd re-evaluate the work you did and see what holes you find.
Hope this helps.
MikeL
Level 6 Valued Member
Thanks Geoff. I will have a think. I do not for a minute think the program itself is accountable, it’s either preparedness or execution (or both) by me which I’ll need to diagnose!
DgNY
Level 2 Valued Member
I just wrapped up the final week of "the wolf". At first I thought that I had hobbled over the finish line having had to put the kettlebells down. But in the end finishing was the most import thing and the more I thought about it there were subtle improvements that caught me by surprise from previous weeks workouts. This was my first double kettlebell complex program and I really enjoyed the structure. Psyched to get into the next one.
Halfakneecap
Level 6 Valued Member
Well done!
DgNY
Level 2 Valued Member
I actually didn't think to write them down until about midway through when I saw someone else had posted thier times. But I do know that I averaged 1:20 seconds generally for day 1's. A minute for day 2's. And then day 3's were all over the place time wise because I had to set the bells down but generally the work was done within 4 mins and I kept a 1:1 work/rest in between sets. Of the sets on day 3's I was able to get through 1:50 was about the average. But the first half of the program I was only able to get through 2 sets before setting bells down on day 3 workouts. By the end I was able to get 3 rounds in before needing to set them down (which surprised me although it may have had something to do with my adjustments). I stuck with 20's throughout. I have kettlebell kings adjustable kettlebells so while I could have dropped to 16's in the middle of a workout it's not a quick swap. It would have knocked the work/rest time way out whack so I just decided rather than switch up the weights to just stay with 20's. I live in NYC and find the adjustable kb's great for that but do wish I could quickly swap weights as I would have done a combo of 20's and 16's on day 3's. The other thing that bothers me is the size of the bells. It was affecting everything in the first part of the program because I would widen my stance for the cleans and snatches because the size of the bells and forget at first to tighten it back up for the front squat and press. I don't know when I narrowed my front squat stance exactly but I'm sure that was a major reason in being able to do more work. This was my first time doing a complex based program and actually my first double kettlebell program period. Ha! @BrianCF 's list of level of difficulty in MKM was illuminating. By the time I realized I could have started with something else besides The Wolf I was two weeks in. But I was having fun so who cares. I am looking forward to the second go round with the wolf maybe later in the year to see if I'm able to improve. That said I'm a lot stronger than I was 6 weeks ago and am super excited to get into the next one.
DrG
Level 2 Valued Member
Hi,
It's been a while since I've been wondering about the main differences between chains and complexes.
I'm thinking of doing, again, The Wolf after Strong using chains.
What will be the results?
I imagine, maybe wrongly, a more general fatigue than local and maybe more total work or rest times that could be shorter, and therefore more density?
What results in terms of cardio, muscular work, recovery needed?
Thanks
It's been a while since I've been wondering about the main differences between chains and complexes.
I'm thinking of doing, again, The Wolf after Strong using chains.
What will be the results?
I imagine, maybe wrongly, a more general fatigue than local and maybe more total work or rest times that could be shorter, and therefore more density?
What results in terms of cardio, muscular work, recovery needed?
Thanks
DgNY
Level 2 Valued Member
Hey @YourArsenal23 how did you like KSK/YDKS? Thinking about doing this one. I've seen from of your previous posts you've run complexes simultaneously. This would be my first time and I'm thinking it might be an experiment gone wrong with the lack of rest and two young kids hahaha. I got through the wolf (imperfectly) in late december and january and just finished the upper back attack.
YourArsenal23
Level 5 Valued Member
Hey @DgNY so I wrapped up King-Sized Killer last week and enjoyed every minute of it. I didn't end up running YDKS, so just focused on KSK/snatching. It yielded great results! Lost a few pounds/kgs and toned-up a bit. I enjoyed it so much I'm running it again with a heavier bell.
Although I ran a lot of complexes last year, KSK really put things into perspective for me. Complexes left me smoked and on the heavy days and the day after I was feeling really depleted. I was and still am in a caloric deficit so that may have something to do with it. But snatching 20 minutes for 3 days a week has been great. The progression of KSK isn't a walk in the park but I always felt accomplished after a session and truly works the whole body. My endurance went way up after all those snatches. I have a review of the program in my training log (linked below) if you're curious.
I still have an affinity for double kb complexes and have The Wolf scheduled for early summer. But now thinking about running them once maybe twice a year.
DgNY
Level 2 Valued Member
Interesting. Yeah I just finished the upper back attack today and was told it was an easy program but honestly I am pretty smoked. I am 44 with 2 young kids so sleep is at a premium. I'm a video editor and spend a lot of time sitting though am getting a standing desk soon. I was going to ask the forum how people approached the time in between complexes (do they focus on recovery for a week or two, do they go right into the next one, do they completely switch gears etc.) Running one right into the other has me a little depleted... I did the wolf before this with 20kg and had to put them down at times on day 3's...anyway got through that and went right into UBA. I was toying with the idea of dropping the weight on YDKS if I decided to do them both at the same time but we'll see. Still not sure whats next. After reading your training log on the ksk it has me pretty interested to just commit to that. Anyway thanks man.
YourArsenal23
Level 5 Valued Member
Oops, somehow posted twice.