Alan Mackey
Level 7 Valued Member
How do your kettlebells go from the floor to your chest before you front squat them?
Barbell Newbie Experience of a Zercher Squat with Unloaded Olympic Bar
- Thread starter Denys Carthusian
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- zercher squat
Halfakneecap
Level 6 Valued Member
If you have cranky elbows, does it hurt ? My main concern would be my elbow tendinitis
flaring up.
flaring up.
Antti
Level 10 Valued Member
I used to have an elbow that didn't like many kinds of extensions and zerchers were always fine.
When it comes to flexion I never really feel it in my flexors or elbows. Maybe if I can't fit to flex my elbows properly before I get under the bar. That may happen if you do dead/pin zerchers from way low.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
How do your kettlebells go from the floor to your chest before you front squat them?
Do 1st half of TGU to standing with KB overhead, then lower the bell to front rack?
I find this an odd thread. There are topics raised - quite a few - that merit their own thread and deeper discussion. Core activation in the barbell front squat, upper back training when performing various kinds of squats, and more ...
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Me, too, but the entrance fee is higher.
That sounds like a mobility issue. I find them the deepest weighted squat I do, and the kettlebell front squat is also up there for ROM for me.
Steinborn - I have done that and even hold the USAWA record for it in my age/weight. I plan to return it to my training once I get a couple of upcoming PL meets out of the way.
Your fully racked front squat can begin with learning to clean a barbell, and then you don't need a rack. Again, a fairly high entrance fee here but worth pursuing, IMHO.
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silveraw
Level 9 Valued Member
I should clarify I was talking about zercher not front squat in that statement. The bar ends in my lap halfway through.
Denys Carthusian
Level 5 Valued Member
I guess the Zercher's have helped me reawaken my Off Topic Street Cred.
Ed Fonseca
Level 4 Valued Member
Everybody is different but it definitely started bothering me when I loaded it too heavy at first. I was trying to figure out what a good weight would be.
When I assisted Fabio Zonin at the SFL last year, he taught the Zercher squat as the FIRST squat variation. That's the way the SFL manual is organized. After that, in the manual (cert order may vary depending on event scheduling): Front Squat, Military Press, Back Squat, Good Morning, Bench Press, Sumo Deadlift, Conventional Deadlift.
Many universal squat principles can be taught with the Zercher squat: tension, breathing, mid-foot balance, coordinated movement of hip and knee flexion, depth and mobility. You can then move on to essentially a bigger challenge with bar placement and center of gravity with other squat variations.
From the SFL manual, intro to Zercher Squat: "The Zercher squat, which requires that you hold the barbell in the crooks of your elbows, offers many unique advantages over the back squat and the front squat. A safe ZSQ technique is much easier to learn. The Zercher enables you to fully extend you hips on the top. Zerchers work your midsection very intensely. Of all squat variations, the Zercher squat has the greatest carryover to the deadlift and the back squat.* The ZSQ is easy on the wrists, elbows, and shoulders and has low demands on the upper body flexibility, unlike the back and front squats. During the Zercher squat the center of gravity is a lot lower than in back or front squat, hence the weight is easier to balance and you can "grind" harder without losing your form. No spotters are necessary with the Zercher squat."
*I added an asterisk here because there are two ways to do a Zercher squat, which has been discussed here on the forum in past threads. One way is more like a low bar back squat, and would have more carryover to the deadlift. The other way is more like a front squat or goblet squat and would have more carryover to front squat and more mobility and range of motion. I do 5 of the first and then 1 of the second in this video. Contrary to my video description, that last one isn't incorrect. But as Doc Hartle said at my SFL cert n 2017, if you're going to do it that way, you might as well front squat. "You're hurting your elbows for no reason."
Many universal squat principles can be taught with the Zercher squat: tension, breathing, mid-foot balance, coordinated movement of hip and knee flexion, depth and mobility. You can then move on to essentially a bigger challenge with bar placement and center of gravity with other squat variations.
From the SFL manual, intro to Zercher Squat: "The Zercher squat, which requires that you hold the barbell in the crooks of your elbows, offers many unique advantages over the back squat and the front squat. A safe ZSQ technique is much easier to learn. The Zercher enables you to fully extend you hips on the top. Zerchers work your midsection very intensely. Of all squat variations, the Zercher squat has the greatest carryover to the deadlift and the back squat.* The ZSQ is easy on the wrists, elbows, and shoulders and has low demands on the upper body flexibility, unlike the back and front squats. During the Zercher squat the center of gravity is a lot lower than in back or front squat, hence the weight is easier to balance and you can "grind" harder without losing your form. No spotters are necessary with the Zercher squat."
*I added an asterisk here because there are two ways to do a Zercher squat, which has been discussed here on the forum in past threads. One way is more like a low bar back squat, and would have more carryover to the deadlift. The other way is more like a front squat or goblet squat and would have more carryover to front squat and more mobility and range of motion. I do 5 of the first and then 1 of the second in this video. Contrary to my video description, that last one isn't incorrect. But as Doc Hartle said at my SFL cert n 2017, if you're going to do it that way, you might as well front squat. "You're hurting your elbows for no reason."
Denys Carthusian
Level 5 Valued Member
I would be remiss if I didn't plug the Strong First video course on the barbell lifts as well (if you're a penny pinching tightwad like me). I'm glad that my intuition on the Zercher lines up with the description above. I have issues with L5/S1 that I'm trying to correct and that freaky abdominal contraction is likely a key piece of the rehab puzzle for me.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Interestingly, Dan John talks about progressing:
Goblet Squat
Overhead Squat
everything else is easy after that
Denys Carthusian
Level 5 Valued Member
I saw that/listened to that. Perhaps reflecting his Oly lifting background as well as working with a whole slew of HS athletes.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
The logic is solid, though, regardless.
Yes it is.
The problem is application with those who aren't high school athletes.
Hence starting with Zerchers for the barbell squats and progressing from there.
Denys Carthusian
Level 5 Valued Member
Beautiful. That's exactly what I started thinking after hearing it and deciding to move on to the Zercher as a first whistle stop on the rehab journey.
Antti
Level 10 Valued Member
Aren't you proficient with barbell squats? Is 60kg a meaningful load to you?
Try to equal your best front squat 1RM. Maybe it will tax your core more.
I wouldn't compare any squat to rollouts.
Well in all fairness it was only 60kg. Put 100-150kg on and see how that feels. Do a set of five.